Basically if you don’t want to stand respectfully you have the choice to stay in the locker room. According to an anonymous owner standing with one fist in the air is not standing respectably.

No word yet on whether it is respectable to pump that one fist during the Anthem.

Also MDP you get +41 internets.

I swear to Christ this is the funniest shit I’ve seen since the Sham-Wow guy got caught with hookers and was barred from selling things on TV.

I look at it from a business point of view. If I own a business and some of my employees do something on the clock that rubs a significant portion of the population the wrong way, I make them stop doing it. I don’t care the politics of it. It doesn’t matter to me whether I agree with what they’re doing or not. I tell them to find another way to bring attention to their cause that doesn’t affect my bottom line. Because this is a business.

Well I can’t speak for any of you guys, but for me nothing screams “Freedom” like forced patriotism under threat of punishment.

‘MURICA! FUCK YEAH!

Further, and I’ve stated this many times already ever since this nonsense got started, it has nothing to do with the flag, or the anthem, or the kneeling. It has to do with the issue/cause that they’re kneeling for. That, and only that.

It’s not secret that this country treats it’s veterans like shit when they come back from war. The VA is a joke, their healthcare is nearly subhuman and the support and care for them is so awful that on average 22 veterans commit suicide every single day. The government should be ashamed of itself for the way it treats it’s heroes, and the American people should be appalled by it, especially considering the pro-military and patriotic sentiment Americans have for their troops. But the truth is nothing every really gets done and for the most part most people in America have no idea how bad the situation is, don’t realize the suicide rate of vets, and are unaware of how our troops are treated by their own government after risking their lives to defend our country.

Now if Drew fuckin Brees said all of that in a Pre-game interview and then walked out onto the field and knelt during the national anthem to raise awareness for that cause, and to shed light on the issue and get Americans talking about it……he’d be called a fucking hero, and you all damn well know it’s the truth. If the following week Rob Gronkowski and Tom Brady and Jordy Nelson and a slew of other high profile athletes that have personally been affected by vet suicide, or poor treatment of a family member by the VA decided to also kneel, the sentiment for real change would be overwhelming and the calls for these men to be lauded for their actions would be heard from every mountain top in the country, and the praise would fall like rain from the heavens.

But those players didn’t kneel, and they didn’t kneel for that cause. A black guy with cornrows knelt for racial injustice and police brutality and then many others followed. And the ugly truth is, nobody wants to listen to a “nigger” complain about the way he’s getting treated by the cops, especially when they’re rich. So instead of addressing the issue, or why it was happening, or what what they were doing meant, they were shamed, slammed, derided, ridiculed, called names, and in multiple cases lost their jobs and made into pariahs.

It didn’t have shit to do with the flag. It had to do with the cause.

Now, someone tell me I’m wrong.

Like I said I don’t care what the cause is, if it is divisive to my customers then you’re not gonna be allowed to do it at work.

I don’t disagree, but it only became divisive because what I said is true.

If that’s Aaron Rodgers out there kneeling for veterans and to raise awareness for veteran suicide this isn’t a divisive issue, and that’s hypocrisy.

And the NFL really dropped the ball here. You either tell the players that everyone comes out and stands, or everyone stays in the locker room (like it used to be until just a few years ago when the government actually started paying the NFL to have the players come out and stand for the anthem in an act of patriotism). You don’t give them an option to do one or the other.

I think the disconnect is that the people who openly support vets are the same people that are insulted by the act of kneeling before the flag.

Exactly.

Had Drew Brees kneeled for the 22 vets per day that commit suicide, vets would say ‘thanks for the thoughts, but find a better way to bring it to the forefront because you’re offending veterans by not standing’.

Highly doubtful. I’ll concede that there is a possibility that might happen, but I’ll label it remote at best. Keep in mind that there are a very large number of vets right now that are saying what these players are doing is okay by them because they fought for the right for these guys to do it. That part of the argument isn’t reported on though because it doesn’t fuel the divide or stir the racial undertones in all of this. The people screaming that this is offensive and that these players are pieces of shit for doing what they’re doing don’t want to hear from scores of veterans telling them that they’re wrong. Even if they did they’d dismiss it and call it bullshit from the “liberal” media and snowflakes trying desperately to allow rich football players to disrespect our fine anthem. It wouldn’t matter in the least if it’s true because people have already made up their minds and at this point will only hear what they want to, which is only when people agree with their viewpoint. (A very common, invasive, destructive, and cancerous way of thinking eating away the fabric of our republic).

Even if they did though, “‘thanks for the thoughts, but find a better way to bring it to the forefront because you’re offending veterans by not standing’” is still a far and away better response than what Kaepernick and the rest of players who knelt were initially greeted with. Which, for the most part, was “shut the fuck up and play football you piece of shit”. Our own President said that they shouldn’t even be in the country. (An abhorrent statement). Still leaps and bounds below “thank you but please stop”.

Again, the real issue has nothing to do with the flag or the anthem. It’s simply that million of Americans don’t want to see rich black football players complaining about racial inequality and police brutality, and that’s just the ugly truth. Few if any will come out and admit that.

If there are people out there genuinely upset because they feel that silent kneeling during the national anthem is highly offensive to them regardless of the issue, I could understand their point of view. But the realist in me says that that’s really not the case, and that if the issue was something that all of these people supported, the “outrage”, if any at all, would be nearly non-existent.

Personally I feel that standing for the national anthem is the respectful thing to do. That’s what I was taught by a military family as far back as I can remember. But at the same time I recognized that as a free country we don’t force our citizens into displays of patriotism under threat of punishment. That’s called Fascism, something that I guaran-damn-tee all of these people upset about this are strongly against, so the irony of the situation is equally as blatant as the hypocrisy.

And just to hit the point home, ABC fired Rosanne after she went loopy on Twitter. She has every right to say whatever she wants on twitter, and ABC has every right to fire her for it. She damaged her public image and would have damaged ABC’s image with a percentage of the population if they had done nothing.

Having freedom means accepting the consequences of your actions. Players can and will kneel this year, but there will be consequences. They may limit the teams that are interested in them should they hit the market, or the advertisers who are willing to put their name on a product.

Shooter wrote:

Right?!! Wow! You want a huge does of Irony about that too Ice? All of the people complaining about her getting fired, and saying that she has a right to free speech are the same group of people who wanted to players to stand, shut up, and play football hahahahahahahaha. They don’t even see the hypocrisy.

I’m pretty sure I just proved that’s not true. Nice straw man argument though…

I didn’t draw a moral equivalency, I drew a business equivalency. I don’t believe I’ve made any comments in this thread about the morals of kneeling for the anthem, but I’m too lazy to check.

Shooter wrote:

I’m confused. I agree with you about ABC.

But I think we disagree on kneeling for the anthem.

the dude wrote:

I am going to disagree with you. They changed their ways because the government forced them to. If you believe they were forced by demand, then I have an ocean front piece of land I would like to sell you in Kansas. You may need a little bit of a history lesson on this if you thing demand changed these people’s ways.

Demand is a very strong force. For example 10 years ago you could find confederate flags for sale on Amazon by the dozens. Now they’re gone. They are not illegal, but they are highly frowned upon. Another perfect example is the Rosanne firing. The government didn’t do that, capitalism did that.

The problem is at what line are you drawing what is demeanor to the company and what is demeanor towards an Americans human rights and rights of a citizen.

No one is forcing these players to take a job with the NFL. They can go into the workforce and find another job. But if they want to work in the NFL they have to follow the guidelines the NFL enforces or they can be fired. Their rights are not being impinged; they are free to kneel in front of the flag without fear of men in guns throwing them in the gulag. However they may be fined by the NFL, because the NFL and NFLPA agreed to that.

The nfl could say the penalty or jobs to be assigned later is the person jump off a cliff or stick their head in a toilet. There are rules in this country and at some point, the social injustices need to be fought against.

Would you stick your head in a toilet once for $1million? I probably would. If that was a ‘job’, I’d submit my application. The job of NFL players is to play football abiding by the rules they agreed to as stated in their contracts and the CBA. If the rules upset them they can quit and find another job because this is America and they’re free.

In our world history, people 50 years from now will talk about how stupid people are for degrading peoples freedom of speech and how the Dotard was the biggest joke in the history or the USA.

Pure speculation, but I give it 50% chance of coming true. That’s if this country exists in 50 years.

Dude, the NFL is a TV Show. They aren’t telling players they can’t kneel during the anthem. They’re saying “you can’t come out and kneel during the anthem ON OUR TV SHOW.” Like I said before, it’s not a racist thing for the league, it’s a distraction that takes focus off the TV SHOW.

Comparing the kneeling to Josh Allen is apples to oranges. The rules against kneeling are about controlling the production of their tv show (i.e. when the employees are “on the clock”). Disqualifying Josh Allen as you suggest would be about actually impinging on free speech.

MDP Sack Attack wrote:

To me, however, that is exactly a moral equivalency. It’s your choice as a business owner what code of conduct you hold your employees to, and what rules you set in place for them. How do you think it would go over if owners explained this new policy to players in terms of “Well, Roseanne got fired on the same basis, so you understand what we’re doing”? Not well.

It would go over VERY poorly. That would be about the worst way to explain it to them. No matter what words you use, I don’t think they’d be excited to hear them. It’s a policy a huge number of them will disagree with. That sucks, but that’s life. When I was a waiter we used to be able to grab a fountain drink any time we wanted, until management decided it was costing them too much. They said if we want anything besides water we’d have to pay for it. It was absolutely fucking ridiculous. Our choice was to either stay and adhere to the stupid rule or to get a job somewhere else. NFL players have the same choice. Adhere to the rule or get a job somewhere else.

To me, this is a reactionary policy which is basically owners telling players they are in the wrong and must stop. It’s a cowardly and reactionary move and, in most sorts of business, is a great way to lose good employees. Unfortunate, since the NFL is a monopoly…

I agree with everything you just said. It’s reactionary (though I’m not sure that makes it a bad thing), and it’s a great way to lose good employees. But how many ‘good employees’ can the NFL afford to lose before the product on the field suffers? A lot. There’s thousands of good former college players that aren’t in the NFL and they’d give their left nut to join. Sadly all the players are completely replaceable. And yeah the NFL is a monopoly, thanks to the government. Congress gave them an antitrust exemption. I’m all for removing that.

Shooter wrote:

Hateful things he said on Twitter.

What did he say?

Most of it was using the N word when talking about his boys, like “those guys are my n—-s.”

I did see at least one tweet where he said something like “if it ain’t white, it ain’t right.”

Most of it varies from benign to slightly racist. So, in this case I believe the NFL should absolutely allow him to be drafted. In fact, I can’t rememeber the NFL ever disqualifying a player from the draft.

What really prevents a player from being drafted is media and public outrage. I.E. domestic violence has become such a huge issue recently that players like Joe Mixon and Caleb Brantley fell way down in the draft because of what they did or allegedly did. I think it was La’el Collins for the Cowboys that fell out of the draft compeletely after being projected as a first round pick.

So, basically if you want to be upset, it’s because there wasn’t enough media/public outcry to sufficiently damage Josh Allen’s draftability.

the dude wrote:

@ice I wouldnt be surprised if this country doesn’t exist in 50 years… I can’t believe people put in a little handed orange lunatic to be quite honest.

You’re not alone. Almost half the country agrees with you. And almost half the country would feel the same if Hillary had won. But we don’t really want to discuss politics here right?

@soup Nice writeup. Clearly you know more about marketing than you do about football, but that’s not a high bar.

@soup Nice writeup. Clearly you know more about marketing than you do about football, but that’s not a high bar.

He knows more about astrophysics and plate tectonics than he does football. He knows nothing about football lol. Literally anything you put up next to football, he knows more about that than he knows about football.