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It’s pretty much given that Pettine and Farmer are both gone after the season. Who should Haslam replace them with?
The only rule: don’t say someone who is already employed with another team unless it is a REAL promotion. Changing from GM to President of Football Operations is NOT a real promotion. š
This organization has to do something drastic to gain credibility. Remember that time we hired Mike Holmgren to be the team President?
We’re there again. If I’m Jimmy Haslam, I don’t yet understand that fans are not going to continue to pay to watch this dysfunctional shit show (did you see the stands Sunday?). I’m going to trot Manziel out there for the last four games of the season in hopes that the stands will be filled (they won’t) and the team will get a few wins to build on for next season (they won’t). When those things don’t happen, my hope is that Jimmy hits rock bottom. Like the emperor who learns he HAS been naked the whole time, I seeks out the one man that was telling him the truth the whole time:
āYou will not win it all without a quarterback and big-play receiver. It is a fact of life.ā
-Bill PolianTo be certain, we would have to overpay to land the Hall of Fame GM, but the organization would instantly gain credibility around the league. There are concerns that Polian may not be “hungry”, having already been enshrined in the HOF. I personally believe that he has a chip on his shoulder because many believe that his career is owed to Peyton Manning’s greatness as opposed to his genius in the draft. To that end, I believe Polian is still interested in building his legacy, and if you’re the GM that finally turns the Browns around, no one will ever question your legacy.
I believe that Polian will look for a former HC who failed but has rebounded and turned into a successful coordinator. A first time HC has to learn the role. Someone who has been there before and lost it won’t. You know that old saying “You don’t know what you got, till it’s gone”? It’s true. Many successful HCs failed at their first stint at HC only to comeback with a renewed focus and passion for the game. And if I’m looking for a coach that fits that profile, former Raiders HC Hue Jackson, now the OC of the Cincinnati Bengals, springs to mind.
From Jackson’s Wikipedia Page: In 2010, under Jacksonās guidance, the Raiders offense finished fourth in the AFC and sixth in the NFL in scoring (25.6 points per game) also finished fifth in the AFC and 10th in the NFL in total offense (354.6 yards per game) and second in the NFL and AFC in rushing (155.9 yards per game). The Raiders more than doubled their scoring output from the previous year, totaling 410 points. Under Jacksonās offense, RB Darren McFadden finished the season with 1,157 yards rushing on 223 carries for a 5.2 average YPC and 7 rushing touchdowns. McFadden also had 47 receptions for 507 yards and 3 touchdowns. His total numbers were 1,664 total yards and 10 total touchdowns for the 2010 NFL season, making McFadden the NFL’s 5th leader in total yards from scrimmage for the 2010 season.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hue_Jackson
Fast forward to today and Jackson has the Cincinnati Bengals 4th in yards in the AFC, 4th in the NFL in scoring. But what about that failed coaching stint with the Raiders? Jackson went 8-8 before being fired by new GM Reggie McKenzie. Said McKenzie in an ESPN article:
“There comes a time when change is necessary,” McKenzie said Tuesday. “For the Raiders the time is now. The Raiders organization, with respect and deference for all its tradition and history, is about to embark on a new era.”
The era will begin without Jackson, who was fired after going 8-8 in his first season as head coach. McKenzie wanted to bring in his “own guy” to rebuild the organization.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7447129/oakland-raiders-fire-coach-hue-jackson-one-year
It should be noted that the Oakland Raiders, under Mckenzie’s hand picked coach Dennis Allen, went just 4-12 in both 2012 & 2013 before starting the season 0-4 in 2014. The 0-4 start lead to the firing of Allen, the hiring of Tony Sporano, and the Raiders finishing 3-13 in 2014.
So that’s my plan. DO what it takes to get Polian in the door, hire Hue Jackson as the HC, and see if we finally can win some football games and become relevant in the league.
Great post @dawgstyle. Very convincing and I agree with a lot of it.
If I’m Haslam the first thing I do is slam my head in a car door for firing Chudzinski and his staff. Chud will be a head coach again in this league and he did a great job putting together a veteran staff. They went 4-12 based on a complete lack of QB talent that wasn’t really his fault. Having a guy like Norv Turner as OC was something apparently Haslam took for granted. That is the exact kind of staff I’d want to put together again.
At GM I’d like someone rich in personnel experience, but maybe new to the promotion of GM. I don’t have a name for you right now, but someone like Farmer (just NOT Farmer) is fine.
At HC I’d look for someone who has led a franchise at least for a period of time but failed due to circumstances out of their control. A guy like, um, how about Chudzinski. But that ship has sailed hasn’t it. I think Hue Jackson would be a great choice. He’s a player’s coach and I’d want a very strong defensive coordinator. Jim Tomsula, head coach of the 49ers for about another month, might be an option. Chuck Pagano could be another.
Hue Jackson would be a fantastic candidate. He has prior head coaching experience with mild success, great success as a coordinator, and would be very hungry to prove himself.
As for GM, I too don’t have any names to offer, although I really don’t see a scenario where Bill Polian would be in play. Trent Kirchner, directer of player personell from the Seahawks would deserve an interview, as would Eliot Wolf who holds the same job for the Packers. The latter would really intrigue me, as gaining such a prestigious title and such a young age (33) speaks volumes for his abilities and ambition.
Who would take the job?
You have to be realistic in evaluating this. The last time the Browns were in this position, 2 years ago, we did exactly this:
At HC Iād look for someone who has led a franchise at least for a period of time but failed due to circumstances out of their control.
Literally everyone on the list said thanks but no thanks. A guy like Josh McDaniels fits wonderfully into this, but he already told us no once. And down the list we went, getting hand waves and closed doors until Mike Pettine had his “Lou Brown” moment and decided to forget about the guy on the other line about the white walls and finally said “okay sure, I’ll give it a whirl”.
If he whacks Pettine and Farmer at the end of this season, that would mean that in less than 4 years, Haslam will have gone through 3 GM’s and 3 head coaches and looking for his 4th in both categories. Who the hell in their right mind would even want to go anywhere near this franchise? You’d have to scramble to assemble a coaching staff and Front Office, cram session your days evaluating the team up until the draft and Free Agency, inherit a roster completely devoid of talent save for 3 or 4 positions, completely overhaul both the offensive and defensive schemes/systems, answer the great QB question, and then trot out a team that has absolutely no real chance of any kind in being competitive, get crucified by the local press as the season inevitably slips away sometime in late October, and know that at the end of the year they’re all going to get fired because of it.
I mean, that doesn’t sound in any way like a job anyone would ever even bother to consider. Everyone is saying things like “well, you can’t get any worse than Farmer and Pettine” and that’s rue and I agree, but the issue is that we’re not going to be able to find anyone any better. At best, at the absolute best, the only thing the Browns will be able to do is find carbon copies of the guys we already have and have some sort of hope that they will be able to get along. And even that won’t last because, as we see, the losses mount and the finger pointing starts at light speed around here. Pettine and Farmer were best friends for the 1st 8-9 months they were here. Then the text messages started and the rift became the size of the Grand Canyon almost overnight.
I think what the Browns need to do is eliminate the greater of the two evils, and to me, that’s Farmer. You get rid of him and you keep Pett. I actually still think that Pettine is a good football coach, and if given a much more productive environment where he’s not dealing with heaping loads of external bullshit and could actually just focus on coaching football, could be a productive coach for this team. It also eliminates scrapping all the playbooks and totally starting over from scratch and let’s us keep some semblance of continuity which this team dreadfully, woefully lacks and has lacked since 1999.
Now one of the big problems with that is, usually when you bring in a new GM, that guy wants his guys in there. That’s where you bite the bullet and have Pettine involved in the interview process of potential candidates for the GM role so you can and will know that both the coach AND the GM are on the same page and will work closely together to right the ship. Otherwise, you’re just going to run into the exact same situation we find ourselves in now, and on into Groundhogs Day we continue.
In closing, Bill Polian is 73 years old. Seventy….three.
He’s a smart guy and deserves to be where he is, but I just don’t see how a guy that age can put in the time and effort needed for such a comprehensive undertaking that would be tasked in getting this franchise turned around. We’re not going to get anywhere if the guy in charge needs to take 6-8 naps a day.
I imagine that Haslam will have to have a deal with…someone before firing anyone (is that breaking any rules?). And I’m guessing we’re gonna have something new after this season…Director of Football Operations. Which, if we grabbed the right guy for the gig, might not be a bad call.
Fact is…I have no idea personally who would possibly take any job with this team, especially if we start firing folks. If that happens…Haslam better open up his pocketbook.
In closing, Bill Polian is 73 years old. Seventyā¦.three.
Heās a smart guy and deserves to be where he is, but I just donāt see how a guy that age can put in the time and effort needed for such a comprehensive undertaking that would be tasked in getting this franchise turned around. Weāre not going to get anywhere if the guy in charge needs to take 6-8 naps a day.
Here’s a fun little reality check:
7 of the world’s top 10 billionaires are 70 years old or older. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It’s as true in football as it is in finances. Yes, Bill Polian is 73, and that old fucker would have more done before breakfast on the first day of the job than the 41 year old Farmer has in the last 2 years.
Who you know matters.
Knowing what you want matters.
Polian has the connections and a clear cut plan to make his vision a reality. Only Browns fans would find a way to knock a guy for experience and success.
fuck it, i hire soup and dawgstyle…either they will be successful or they will kill shooter in the meantime….either way, better than this season.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
7 of the worldās top 10 billionaires are 70 years old or older.
Well okay. But you do realize that they aren’t putting in 60-70+ hour weeks and building their empires. They did that in their 30’s 40’s and 50’s. The empires are built, they’re just sitting back and reaping the rewards at this point. Bill Gates, Mark Cuban etc, they made their money and then check out, collecting the dividends of their stock. You think Mark Zuckerburg is gonna be working when he’s 55? Think he won’t be one of the richest men in the world by then? Ya get the point I’m driving at here?
I’m not saying the guy wasn’t great because clearly, he was. But the key word, is “was”. There’s a reason he’s on tv and not in the office. You gotta be realistic. He’s 73 man, c’mon.
Besides, what in the holy hell makes you think that a guy like Bill Polian would in any way shape or form even WANT to come to this cesspool of doom?
I posted this on Twitter, and I will put it here in a little more elaborate scheme. HI GUYS. Been moving and having a little one who is now over a year old has kept me away, and being honest, the browns haven’t really given me any reason to waste cyberspace on them. BUTTTTT. This does have a hypothetical to it.
The most obvious one to me is that Haslam has to offer Peyton Manning (hypothetical is that he retires0 a significant share of ownership in the browns. That also makes him the President of football operations. Peyton Manning then in turn hires Adam Gase.
If that doesn’t work, I would bring in Greg Roman as head coach. His offense is as innovative as any in the league. He has the Bills in playoff position despite the fact that their qb is tyrod taylor, and their dominant defense is not dominant anymore.
As for a gm honestly, I don’t have a problem with Farmer. Hear me out before I get decapitated. Pettine WANTED Justin Gilbert. That was the guy he had to have, and the minute he found out he was immature wanted nothing to do with him. Pettine WANTED Shelton. He has gotten nothing out of him. The Cam Erving pick still I maintain is a second year pick. hes going to be our center next year. Alex Mack god bless him cant wait to get out of Cleveland, and honestly who could blame him? Cam Erving despite struggling at guard, has played where ever they have asked him to play.
So in reality, I can only blame a first round pick on farmer and that is Johnny Manziel. he was not strong enough to stand up to haslam. yes, haslam is the boss, but when its your job to pick players, and you know your head coach wants nothing to do with Johnny, and to be frank no one other than Haslam did, you have to stand up to him and say hey, this is my show. He drafts Bridgewater or Carr, and this is a completely different scenario right now.
So to recap. id go with Peyton/gase
or Roman/Farmer.
Well okay. But you do realize that they arenāt putting in 60-70+ hour weeks and building their empires. They did that in their 30ās 40ās and 50ās. The empires are built, theyāre just sitting back and reaping the rewards at this point. Bill Gates, Mark Cuban etc, they made their money and then check out, collecting the dividends of their stock. You think Mark Zuckerburg is gonna be working when heās 55? Think he wonāt be one of the richest men in the world by then? Ya get the point Iām driving at here?
If you think they’re sitting back on their laurels collecting dividends you have another thing coming. Numbers 6 & 7 on the Forbes 2015 Billionaire List, Charles (80) and David Koch (75) were ranked 26th and 27th in 2010 and Liliane Bettencourt (93), who is currently ranked 9th, was ranked 17th in 2010. You don’t make jumps like that by taking naps.
In a Quora article written on Warren Buffet, it states:
So, we can’t really quantify exactly how many hours, nor can we say that Buffett considered much of it to be work. Once he settled into his routine, he felt no obligation to buy or sell like a standard broker. He spent his time learning about companies, until he found companies that he felt impelled to buy. He was focused and exhaustive in his efforts.
https://www.quora.com/How-many-hours-a-day-was-Warren-Buffett-working-when-he-started-his-career
To guys like Buffet (and I’d be willing to bet the same is true of Polian), doing what they do isn’t work, it’s who they are. It is how they define themselves. The reason they can do more in less time is because they’ve already made their mistakes. They’re productive, not busy, because they know how to apply a proven methodology towards the challenges and opportunities in front of them.
Iām not saying the guy wasnāt great because clearly, he was. But the key word, is āwasā. Thereās a reason heās on tv and not in the office. You gotta be realistic. Heās 73 man, cāmon.
As a physics major, I see +65 year old physicists wiping the floor with the 18-65 year old crowd all day long. Peter Higgs (86), Michio Kaku (68), Alan Guth (68), Andrei Linde (67), Alexander Vilenkin (66), Stephen Hawking (73). Are you suggesting that these men are incapable of making meaningful contributions to physics? I would argue their best work, the culmination of their life’s work, is still ahead of them! Football ain’t physics.
Besides, what in the holy hell makes you think that a guy like Bill Polian would in any way shape or form even WANT to come to this cesspool of doom?
Now this is a worthy point. I have no idea if Polian WANTS to come back to the NFL. But the man has gone out of his way to criticize the Browns organization when so many have just completely written us off. “The Browns still suck” is not very newsworthy, so why he would devote any time to us at all is a mystery.
That said, why am I trying to make UWO the first University to reach space? Why not switch schools (which I have the option to do) and go to a school with more resources like UW Madison, UIC, MIT or Caltech? This is a two part explanation.
The first revolves around the question “why space?”. The reason is because getting to space is hard. Very hard. The current world record holder has been in possession of the World Record since 2004. Everyone was going to break his record. 11 years later, only he has broken his record, becoming the first and second amateur to reach space in history. I set my sights on breaking his record because it is hard. I want the challenge. As challenging as it will be to get to space, I believe turning the Browns into a Superbowl contender will be harder (look no further than Blue Origins, SpaceX, and all the other private space agencies that have successfully made the trip to space since the Browns last won a championship). Polian may be interested in the challenge because he feels it is a challenge worthy of his efforts. If he turns the Browns around, he would be in the conversation for greatest GM ever.
The second question is “why at UWO”. The reason is simple. If I go to another university, that university will get credit for the achievement. Make it to space as a student at MIT, Caltech, Stanford, et al. and the university gets the credit. Make it to space as a student at UWO and I get the credit. Polian’s career, HOF worthy in it’s own right, is credited to the success of Peyton Manning. If I’m Polian, that would piss me off. How do you shake that perception? Do it again where there is no Peyton Manning. Cleveland has no Peyton Manning. It does have the number 1 overall pick. It also has a terrible reputation, and I know I could go in and seize full control of the organization from top to bottom. Haslam is looking like an idiot, and if you’re Polian, you bring instant credibility to the organization. Let’s not forget that credibility like that doesn’t come cheap.
All that said, I don’t know if Polian wants to come to Cleveland or not. I believe where there is smoke, there is fire. Polian’s willingness to address specific moves made by the Browns FO when it offers him no commercial leverage indicates to me there is a level of interest for reasons I cannot possibly know. I would try to capitalize on that.
Yes he’s 73. Maybe he’s the President of Operations instead of the GM. Maybe he’s like Holmgren, who would rather be in the hot seat than the corner office. Who knows?
If he wants to come to Cleveland, I want him here. His age doesn’t concern me a bit.
For a Coach I’d try for Gruden. IMO you can see it in his eyes that wants to turn the Browns around.
GM Bernie Kosar
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If Peyton Manning retires this year, I back up the brinks truck and don’t even hesitate. Interestingly, this has been rumored about once or twice in the past 12 months or so. Peyton does have the Tennessee connection to Haslam, and honestly I can’t see Peyton staying out of football after his playing days have ended.
Granted Peyton has no experience of any kind, but let’s be honest here he’s probably the most cerebral player to ever play the game, and I mean ever. It’s not often that you see HOF players become HOF executives, but Elway is on his way and Newsome is a lock, so it does happen. I’d jump at the chance. He’d instantly give the team credibility.
HI GUYS.
Welcome good sir, glad to see you back in the mix. Yes, it’s been a tough year and it’s hard to even talk about this team right now.
If Peyton Manning retires this year, I back up the brinks truck and donāt even hesitate. Interestingly, this has been rumored about once or twice in the past 12 months or so. Peyton does have the Tennessee connection to Haslam, and honestly I canāt see Peyton staying out of football after his playing days have ended.
Granted Peyton has no experience of any kind, but letās be honest here heās probably the most cerebral player to ever play the game, and I mean ever. Itās not often that you see HOF players become HOF executives, but Elway is on his way and Newsome is a lock, so it does happen. Iād jump at the chance. Heād instantly give the team credibility.
This doesn’t change my position on Polian at all, but I would be thrilled if this happened. You make great points about the Tennessee connection and I agree that Manning has a very high football I.Q. and would instantly add credibility to the F.O.
When Manning retires he is guaranteed any job in broadcasting that he wants. Sunday night? Monday night? It’s his if he wants is. That’s what we’re competing with. He’d also have his choice of plush NFL assignments with us or in Tenn where he is given ultimate power in the org with a 10 year contract and he can hire/fire his own GM, coach, and staff. The question is what does Peyton want to do? Does he want to move his family to Cleveland, a team he has no connection to except that he knows the owner, or does he want to keep them all in Tennessee where he is viewed as a god among men? Money will not sway him, he has all the money he ever wants.
as much as i liked Jon Gruden here in Tampa, he always coached veteran teams. Think about the Eagles and Packers when he was an assistant and the Raiders and Bucs were ready to go when he was the HC. Everything thing he was successful with were led by strong vets..as the Bucs started to age, Chucky and his GM did not choose wisely to continue.
You can say it takes luck to stay strong year after year in the current NFL climate, but NE, Pittsburgh and Denver seem to reinvent themselves with limited amount of pain.
World Champion 1920 Akron Pros still undefeated!
I was higher on Gruden before this year. He’s basically publicly begging for a job from every team he covers. Says great things about their players, wonders how amazing they could be with some good coaching, etc. While he was chatting about how awesome Manziel is on our MNF fiasco, he was saying the coaches are ruining him and should be ashamed for sitting him. Shut up Gruden.
For a Coach Iād try for Gruden. IMO you can see it in his eyes that wants to turn the Browns around.
GM Bernie KosarWith his eyes, I believe you are referring to MNF when he was asked about Manziel. I saw it too, except I thought it looked like he was already hired. I swear he was about to say, “next year when I coach them…” and it looked like he swallowed the words before stating it.
Freedom!!!
as much as i liked Jon Gruden here in Tampa, he always coached veteran teams. Think about the Eagles and Packers when he was an assistant and the Raiders and Bucs were ready to go when he was the HC. Everything thing he was successful with were led by strong vets..as the Bucs started to age, Chucky and his GM did not choose wisely to continue.
You can say it takes luck to stay strong year after year in the current NFL climate, but NE, Pittsburgh and Denver seem to reinvent themselves with limited amount of pain.I personally want no part of Gruden for this very reason. I also read the reason Tampa fired him was because the owners called all the players and they all hated him and had no respect for him . Warren Sapp thanked Dungey for the Super Bowl
Freedom!!!
Yes soup I was referring to the MNF interview with Johnny. So we saw and read the same thing from that interview.
For those not aware soup and I agreeing is one of the signs of the apocalypse so beware :p
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If it’s me I keep Pettine on 1 condition; he gets rid of his OC and DC and hires EXPERIENCED coordinators. By experienced I mean they have head coaching experience so if I decide to fire Pettine at the bye week next year I have someone to take the job. If he says he won’t fire his guys, then the whole staff goes.
I fire Farmer as soon as possible either way.
Ice, I’m kind of with you there, but maybe see if Flip will take a position as a QB coach again…he really wasn’t too bad there. I don’t think he’s terrible at his current position either, but he has a lot to learn yet, especially in the running game.
O’Neil and Tabor need to go. Hopefully to be hired by a team in the AFCN. Well, other than us.
What about scooping up Mark Dantonio staff and all from Mich St……. I love his offencive and defensive styles.
Just throwing it out there.
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There is no way you fire Flip. That’s crazy. Flip has had bottom of the barrel talent at EVERY skill position this year, and not one time have I truly said that Flip is the issue. Our best RB is a third down running back. Our best receiver is 5’10, and we have utilized a guy at tight end who before this year had never amassed more than 13 receptions in a season. Give Flip time to grow. But nuke the entire defense staff from orbit.
But nuke the entire defense staff from orbit.
It’s a shame you don’t have strong feelings on the subject.
Flip doesn’t get a pass from me. No one in any way associated with this offense does. Defilipo may have been promoted beyond his ability and that’s a shame because he might have been a good assistant. It’s never ideal in any organization to demote someone, it’s almost always better to release them outright. That goes for football, retail, IT, everything.
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