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Not really sure about this one.
Is Hartline the bees knees? No. He’s a role player, I get it.
Before he signed with this debacle of a franchise though, was he coming off back-to-back 70+ catch 1,000 yard seasons? Yes, yes he was. Is he a sure-handed, solid if unspectacular veteran who knows what it takes to play in this league and can teach younger players how to be pros? Yes.
He wasn’t expensive. I’m not crushed or anything by it, but at the same time for a team that is so in need of talent at WR that it drafted 37 of them in the draft, a solid, dependable, hard working veteran would seem pretty advantageous to have around. Who’s the leader of the WR room, Josh Gordon?
I guess he didn’t add up to the Calculator Club’s liking.
I wouldn’t call him sure handed by any means. The dude dropped a ton of balls this year at very critical times. I know most here won’t agree with me, but I don’t think he is worth a roster spot. Of course, comparing his to Dwayne Bowe is just ridiculous. He probably won’t be around either after camp.
Also, maybe he just has a piss poor attitude or even asked them to release him….We jump to conclusions here too quick sometimes. Cleveland is a mess right now.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
1) He’s not gonna be here in 2020 when we’re making our superbowl run.
2) We just got a huge influx of young talent, and his presence takes up reps they could be getting
3) At $3+ million a year we can get that production cheaper.I really like Hartline, but I understand the business decision.
The dude dropped a ton of balls this year at very critical times
That was a very Soupy comment. Unsubstantiated, and factually inaccurate.
He was probably the most sure-handed reciever we had.
The dude dropped a ton of balls this year at very critical times
That was a very Soupy comment. Unsubstantiated, and factually inaccurate.
He was probably the most sure-handed reciever we had.He dropped 5 passes last year (drop% 6.5). He’s no Mike Evans who dropped 11 passes (7.4%).
That being said – YOU not @thedude, are factually inaccurate by a wide margin. Hartline was the LEADER of the Browns with his 5 drops.
http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2015/
Anyone with 30+ receptions on the Browns – he had the WORST hands last year.
That being said – who gives a shit that he got cut. The only 2 worth a damn were Barnidge and Benjamin. Feel free to cut every other guy whose job it is to catch the ball left on the roster from last year not named Barnidge.
Freedom!!!
Hartline was the LEADER of the Browns with his 5 drops.
Wow. 5 drops. How woefully inconsistent (#sarcasm).
Hartline was the LEADER of the Browns with his 5 drops.
Wow. 5 drops. How woefully inconsistent (#sarcasm).
So what you are saying is Hartline, who lead the team in drops and whose drop % was 3 times that of Barnidge and Benjamin is the most sure handed receiver on the team? Care to explain how that’s possible?
Freedom!!!
They don’t have a stat called “Catches that no human should be able to make, but this guy did.” He probably caught at least 5 of those. I’m not talking about a guy jumping 10 feet in the air and catching it with his pinky, I’m talking about this dude going over the middle in traffic, catching the ball and in the same heartbeat getting absolutely demolished by a linebacker. He doesn’t know who he is for a minute, but he’s still holding onto the damn ball when he gets up.
He was more heavily utilized towards the end of the season. Personally, I thought he was pretty sure-handed and a good football player.
That said, I don’t care enough to pick up a pen to sign the “Bring Back Hartline” petition. I’m sure the coaches weren’t impressed enough during OTA’s to warrant keeping him around, and this is hardly a move that breaks this team.
On a somewhat unrelated note, it’s going to be interesting to watch this team grow (assuming Haslam doesn’t fuck this up). It’s becoming more and more obvious that these guys know what they’re doing, at least in terms of bringing new players along. Even the vets are saying it’s a whole different aura in Berea.
So that means we should see 4 wins this year…GO BROWNS! š
The dude dropped a ton of balls this year at very critical times
That was a very Soupy comment. Unsubstantiated, and factually inaccurate.
He was probably the most sure-handed reciever we had.I know this isn’t an official stat, but here you go….he was number 22
http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2015/
If I could go back every time he was targeted, I would show you that here should be at least 3-4 more. Almost every time he was targeted the first time in the game, he dropped the ball.
If you are willing to share the game footage with me, I would be more than willing to show you every pass he should have caught.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Hartline was the LEADER of the Browns with his 5 drops.
Wow. 5 drops. How woefully inconsistent (#sarcasm).
So what you are saying is Hartline, who lead the team in drops and whose drop % was 3 times that of Barnidge and Benjamin is the most sure handed receiver on the team? Care to explain how thatās possible?
Sometimes people wear Orange goggles….but when it is a buckeye, their heart really shows. I don’t lose any sleep over this one.
@Ice – you think 2020 will be our run? I would be willing to give you 1.5 to 1 odds on that right now.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
They donāt have a stat called āCatches that no human should be able to make, but this guy did.ā He probably caught at least 5 of those. Iām not talking about a guy jumping 10 feet in the air and catching it with his pinky, Iām talking about this dude going over the middle in traffic, catching the ball and in the same heartbeat getting absolutely demolished by a linebacker. He doesnāt know who he is for a minute, but heās still holding onto the damn ball when he gets up.
And he did make some amazing catches – don’t get me wrong….but there were multiple 3rd downs where he just clearly dropped the ball.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Lol, some of you guys are just nuts.
He dropped 5 passes.
5.Right, because if he caught those, we were in the playoffs. Lol.
Lol, some of you guys are just nuts.
He dropped 5 passes.
5.Nice try on your deflection. You said he was our most sure handed receiver when in fact he was our least sure handed and lead our team in drops.
Bottom line overall. Who cares. It’s not like he’s starter material anyway. We have 74 #3 WR. We don’t need a 75th.
Freedom!!!
Nice try on your deflection.
What’s to defelect? I readily admit and agree he dropped 5 passes last year.
You said he was our most sure handed receiver when in fact he was our least sure handed and lead our team in drops.
Opinion. From both of us. The difference between us, is that, in my best Trump voice, yours is stupid.
Bottom line overall. Who cares.
I don’t really. It’s not like I’m sitting here saying to myself “Dammit! I can’t believe they cut Hartline, this team is full of idiots!”. I’m not. He’s a replaceable player. “Thanks for the effort, and best of luck to you in the future” is basically where I’m at on his release.
Where things veered for me, is when, and in a way that only Cleveland fans can do and have become total experts at, people started bagging on the guy for what amounts to really no reason whatsoever. Countless times I’ve seen guys not just here, but all over the city just tear a guy down, nitpicking flaws, and ultimately questioning every ounce of his ability and ending with “that guy fucking sucks”. Just to do it. To be dicks.
“He’s got terrible hands, can’t catch for shit!”. Really? Odell Beckham Jr. dropped twice as many last year. Does he have shitty hands too?
He didn’t produce for us last year with a completely dysfunctional team, coaching staff, and a QB situation that could be an SNL skit, and some of you want to just bag on the guy because he dropped 5 fucking footballs? ALL SEASON? Jesus Christ you’d think he was Braylon fucking Edwards or some shit with the way some of you are talking about this.
Getthefuckouttahere.
He’s a sure-handed veteran with size and back-to-back 1,000 yard seasons on his resume. He’s a pro and knows how to find success in this league. Why is saying that about a guy such a bad fucking thing? Did I say he was awesome? Did I say this was a mistake? No, I just simply stated a simple take on a solid player, and some of you are running around here attaking the guy like he fucked your mothers in the ass.
I fucking hate that shit
Itās not like heās starter material anyway.
Ignorant fucking idiot. It’s not like he’s been a starter every year after his rookie season or anything. Why say such stupid shit? I honestly just don’t fucking get it. Why? How the fuck do you say a guy isn’t starter material when he’s been a starter in the NFL FOR 6 STRAIGHT GODDAMN SEASONS!!!!!!
For flying fucks sakes!!!!!!!! I swear to God Cleveland fans are the only ones in the entire league that always do this stupid, classless bullshit.
Fuck.
Lol, some of you guys are just nuts. He dropped 5 passes. 5.
Right, because if he caught those, we were in the playoffs. Lol.
I wasn’t trying to argue they made a difference in our losses, but they could have contributed. I can think of 2 passes on 3rd downs that really impacted the game.
I am more saying calling him sure handed is a far stretch. Guy made some good catches, but you are paid to catch the ball. There were times he heard footsteps.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
shooter rant
Beckham had the same amount with twice as many attempts thrown his way.
Again, for the hundredth time in this thread, let’s just not say he was “sure handed”. There are plenty of passes that were terribly thrown at him. Our QB situation is a tradition in Believeland and it maintains its classic suckedness.
Personally, as a buckeye fan, I have always really like this guy as a person and a player.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
shooter rant
They really should come with a disclaimer shouldnāt they lol?
Shit, you need your own TOS and EULA as well. Like “may cause epilepsy in some people.”
Or maybe tourettes in your case. š
No, not at all. I feel like there would be two choices – “you are fucked” or ” you are dumb as fuck and you are fucked”…..either way the forum would be broke.
Better to throw a porkchop and not expect a bone back.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Nice try on your deflection.
Whatās to defelect? I readily admit and agree he dropped 5 passes last year.
You said he was our most sure handed receiver when in fact he was our least sure handed and lead our team in drops.
Opinion. From both of us. The difference between us, is that, in my best Trump voice, yours is stupid.
No, it’s not an opinion. It’s a FACT – he was not our most sure handed receiver. He dropped 6.5% of catchable passes thrown his way. Barnidge and Benjamin were in the 2% range in regards to drops. They, in FACT, were more sure handed than Hardline. It’s not debatable. It’s a fact.
Bottom line overall. Who cares.
I donāt really. Itās not like Iām sitting here saying to myself āDammit! I canāt believe they cut Hartline, this team is full of idiots!ā. Iām not. Heās a replaceable player. āThanks for the effort, and best of luck to you in the futureā is basically where Iām at on his release.
Where things veered for me, is when, and in a way that only Cleveland fans can do and have become total experts at, people started bagging on the guy for what amounts to really no reason whatsoever. Countless times Iāve seen guys not just here, but all over the city just tear a guy down, nitpicking flaws, and ultimately questioning every ounce of his ability and ending with āthat guy fucking sucksā. Just to do it. To be dicks.
āHeās got terrible hands, canāt catch for shit!ā. Really? Odell Beckham Jr. dropped twice as many last year. Does he have shitty hands too?
He didnāt produce for us last year with a completely dysfunctional team, coaching staff, and a QB situation that could be an SNL skit, and some of you want to just bag on the guy because he dropped 5 fucking footballs? ALL SEASON? Jesus Christ youād think he was Braylon fucking Edwards or some shit with the way some of you are talking about this.
Getthefuckouttahere.
Heās a sure-handed veteran with size and back-to-back 1,000 yard seasons on his resume. Heās a pro and knows how to find success in this league. Why is saying that about a guy such a bad fucking thing? Did I say he was awesome? Did I say this was a mistake? No, I just simply stated a simple take on a solid player, and some of you are running around here attaking the guy like he fucked your mothers in the ass.
I fucking hate that shitHe had 2 1000 yard seasons out of 7 and the team he had them on dropped him like a bad habit the moment they found a better replacement.
Itās not like heās starter material anyway.
Ignorant fucking idiot. Itās not like heās been a starter every year after his rookie season or anything. Why say such stupid shit? I honestly just donāt fucking get it. Why? How the fuck do you say a guy isnāt starter material when heās been a starter in the NFL FOR 6 STRAIGHT GODDAMN SEASONS!!!!!!
No he hasn’t been. In FACT in his 7 seasons – only ONE did he start in every game he appeared in. He started in 73 of 104 total games. Again – ONE of 7 seasons did he start every game he appeared in. You really should fact check.
For flying fucks sakes!!!!!!!! I swear to God Cleveland fans are the only ones in the entire league that always do this stupid, classless bullshit.
Fuck.I never once called him trash – I simply – and easily – proved you WRONG. It’s simple and it’s not up for debate. the facts back me up, not you.
Of the receivers on this team we had two worth keeping.
1. Barnidge
2. BenjaminWe kept only 1. All others can be cut and the team won’t be any worse off. They are all dime a dozen guys. It’s we we spent 4 billion draft picks on receivers this year.
Freedom!!!
he was not our most sure handed receiver.
I never said he was.
No, itās not an opinion. Itās a FACT ā he was not our most sure handed receiver.
Well again, I never said he was.
I simply ā and easily ā proved you WRONG.
Not even possible, because you’re trying to refute something I never said so, I don’t rally know what to tell ya.
You really should fact check.
If this isn’t the pot calling the kettle black. You’re arguing with me that I said Hartline was our most sure-handed receiver, when in FACT, I never said that.
Here are my exact words, Factman.
Is he a sure-handed, solid if unspectacular veteran who knows what it takes to play in this league and can teach younger players how to be pros? Yes.
Feel free to point out where I ever said, in the above statement or anywhere else in this entire thread for that matter, that Brian Hartline was the most sure-handed receiver on our team.
Good luck finding it. It should be somewhere inside the pot of Gold at the end of the rainbow, guarded by a leprechaun, a unicorn and Bigfoot.
You literally don’t even know what you’re arguing about lol.
Personally, I thought he was pretty sure-handed and a good football player.
and
The dude dropped a ton of balls this year at very critical times
That was a very Soupy comment. Unsubstantiated, and factually inaccurate.
[b]He was probably the most sure-handed reciever we had.[/b]Any other questions?
Freedom!!!
Personally, I thought he was pretty sure-handed and a good football player.
Doesn’t say “Most sure handed player on the team”.
He was probably the most sure-handed reciever we had
Key words here are “was probably”, indicating opinion and that from a statistical basis might not be.
Any other questions?
Yes, how many book reports did you fail as a child? As in, how many times did you change the entire point of the story to be what you preferred to be happening as opposed to what really was? I have to assume a number of them went this way. Was it all, most, or just the occasional one?
No, itās not an opinion. Itās a FACT ā he was not our most sure handed receiver. He dropped 6.5% of catchable passes thrown his way. Barnidge and Benjamin were in the 2% range in regards to drops. They, in FACT, were more sure handed than Hardline. Itās not debatable. Itās a fact.
Sorry, that’s just not true. You’re assuming a 100% correlation between the ‘stat’ of drops and the ability of a receiver to catch a ball. You’re also assuming you have enough data to accurately assess and that the difference between 6.5% ‘drops’ and 2% ‘drops’ is meaningful and not within the margin of error with such a small sample size. Both assumptions on your part are completely wrong.
Your ‘drops’ stat is subjective. Two people might view the same play and one might call it a drop and the other might not.
Your assumption that the correlation is exact is ridiculous. Benjamin runs almost exclusively long routes, and Hartline runs almost exclusively in heavy traffic. I don’t have to tell you it’s easier to catch a ball when you’re not worried about a bunch of 300 pound guys trying to kill you. Or maybe I do.
Also as I mentioned before you’re not integrating any ‘stat’ that shows the other side of the coin; how many catches did he make that should have gone incomplete? You don’t have that stat so you just pretend it doesn’t exist and it also doesn’t serve your narrative.
In short don’t claim the facts are on your side. It’s not a fact, it’s a Souptistic.
It’s a FACT. I don’t care about the ones he “shouldn’t have caught but di” and even still – BArnidge caught a lot more of those – he was in the highlight real quite often in the national spotlight for absurd catches. So the point still stands. The point is factual and it’s not up for debate – Hartline did NOT have the most “sure hands” on the team. And- again – who gives a fuck? With the exception of Benjamin and BArnidge all pass catchers on this team last year were average to less than average dime a dozen players. We, in fact, did not get any worse by cutting him.
Freedom!!!
the point is factual and itās not up for debate ā Hartline did NOT have the most āsure handsā on the team.
And yet still, still you don’t comprehend that
-
I NEVER SAID HE WAS.
All I said was that he was a sure-handed receiver. That’s it, nothing more nothing less.
Also, not that there are any of us who don’t already know this, but seriously you yourself need to know: You have a complete lack of understanding for both the definition and application of the term “fact”.
You really don’t know what one is. As an example, the previous sentence……that was a FACT.
Itās a FACT. I donāt care about the ones he āshouldnāt have caught but diā and even still ā BArnidge caught a lot more of those ā he was in the highlight real quite often in the national spotlight for absurd catches. So the point still stands. The point is factual and itās not up for debate ā Hartline did NOT have the most āsure handsā on the team. And- again ā who gives a fuck? With the exception of Benjamin and BArnidge all pass catchers on this team last year were average to less than average dime a dozen players. We, in fact, did not get any worse by cutting him.
The only factual point you can infer from your data is that sportingcharts.com listed him as having 5 drops last season, the most of any player on the Browns. That doesn’t mean he HAD 5 drops because as I explained earlier the term ‘drop’ is subjective.
Itās a FACT. I donāt care about the ones he āshouldnāt have caught but diā and even still ā BArnidge caught a lot more of those ā he was in the highlight real quite often in the national spotlight for absurd catches. So the point still stands. The point is factual and itās not up for debate ā Hartline did NOT have the most āsure handsā on the team. And- again ā who gives a fuck? With the exception of Benjamin and BArnidge all pass catchers on this team last year were average to less than average dime a dozen players. We, in fact, did not get any worse by cutting him.
The only factual point you can infer from your data is that sportingcharts.com listed him as having 5 drops last season, the most of any player on the Browns. That doesnāt mean he HAD 5 drops because as I explained earlier the term ādropā is subjective.
Then go back and post all his passes you deem as drops – until then – the data we have is what we have. HE lead the team in drops and nearly tripled the drop % of BArnidge and Benjamin. Debate over – you lose. More importantly – the Browns lose nothing by cutting Hartline. A guy who isn’t starter material (as is proven by the fact that in his 7 years he started every game he played in only 1 time)
Freedom!!!
Debate over ā you lose.
Not only do you not even know what you’re even debating about (which in itself is amazing, mostly because it’s the entire point of debating to begin with, but also it’s pretty hilarious), but you’re doing it horribly.
So, so horribly.
Then go back and post all his passes you deem as drops ā until then ā the data we have is what we have. HE lead the team in drops and nearly tripled the drop % of BArnidge and Benjamin. Debate over ā you lose.
You seem to not be grasping what I’m saying. If I were to go back and look at the drops, I could come up with the same number or a different number. It doesn’t matter. It is SUBJECTIVE. That means that you are not quantifying a statistic called ‘drops’, you’re quantifying people’s opinions on ‘drops’. It’s not a valid statistic.
But for fun lets assume it was an objective stat. So we’re assuming that he had 5 of them which leads the team and is about double the percentage of Barnidge and Benji. Does that mean he has worse hands? NO. It could be that he runs routes over the middle in traffic where Benji and Barnidge run more go routes. It could mean that he’s covered by better players than the other two. Maybe our QB’s do a better job throwing a deep route vs. a short route. Or maybe since he’s usually the 3rd or 4th receiving option by the time the QB throws to him he’s already under pressure and the ball doesn’t come out as nicely. There are hundreds of things that could affect that stat, even if we were assuming is was a valid stat.
But just to be wacky let’s pretend none of that is a problem either. So we’re now assuming that ‘drops’ is an objective stat, and no other factors except number of drops has anything to do with how good a player is at catching the ball. Congrats, we are now in Soup’s world. So he had 74 passes thrown his way and dropped 5 of them. How many passes would he drop if we threw another 74 to him? I’ve done the math, I won’t bore you by posting it. We need to have 91 passes thrown to him to have a confidence margin (or margin of error) of +-3%. That means even if we had 17 more passes to look at we can only be confident that he will drop between 2% and 8% of them. That means that the difference between his drops and Benji’s and Barnidge’s is not statistically significant because all are within the margin of error. So even in Soup’s crazy world where nothing makes sense and nothing else matters, we still don’t have ‘drops’ as the end-all be-all of catching.
Is the debate over yet?
Then go back and post all his passes you deem as drops ā until then ā the data we have is what we have. HE lead the team in drops and nearly tripled the drop % of BArnidge and Benjamin. Debate over ā you lose.
You seem to not be grasping what Iām saying. If I were to go back and look at the drops, I could come up with the same number or a different number. It doesnāt matter. It is SUBJECTIVE. That means that you are not quantifying a statistic called ādropsā, youāre quantifying peopleās opinions on ādropsā. Itās not a valid statistic.
But for fun lets assume it was an objective stat. So weāre assuming that he had 5 of them which leads the team and is about double the percentage of Barnidge and Benji. Does that mean he has worse hands? NO. It could be that he runs routes over the middle in traffic where Benji and Barnidge run more go routes. It could mean that heās covered by better players than the other two. Maybe our QBās do a better job throwing a deep route vs. a short route. Or maybe since heās usually the 3rd or 4th receiving option by the time the QB throws to him heās already under pressure and the ball doesnāt come out as nicely. There are hundreds of things that could affect that stat, even if we were assuming is was a valid stat.
But just to be wacky letās pretend none of that is a problem either. So weāre now assuming that ādropsā is an objective stat, and no other factors except number of drops has anything to do with how good a player is at catching the ball. Congrats, we are now in Soupās world. So he had 74 passes thrown his way and dropped 5 of them. How many passes would he drop if we threw another 74 to him? Iāve done the math, I wonāt bore you by posting it. We need to have 91 passes thrown to him to have a confidence margin (or margin of error) of +-3%. That means even if we had 17 more passes to look at we can only be confident that he will drop between 2% and 8% of them. That means that the difference between his drops and Benjiās and Barnidgeās is not statistically significant because all are within the margin of error. So even in Soupās crazy world where nothing makes sense and nothing else matters, we still donāt have ādropsā as the end-all be-all of catching.
Is the debate over yet?In 2014 he dropped 6.4% of his passes on Miami. 1/10 of a % better than 2015. How many times am I going to have to school you in this debate?
Hardline did not have the best hands on the team.
And @shooter – I stopped responding because of your cop out – “probably” had the most sure hands on the team implies you thought he had the most sure hands on the team otherwise you wouldn’t have stated it. It’s not like I’m being a jack ass and Hardline dropped 3% of his passes compared to BArnidge and Benjamin being in the 2% range. He nearly tripled them % wise.
Is he a terrible player? Not by any means. Is he someone who we should question cutting? Hell no. Who cares. The team is no better or worse off without him.
Freedom!!!
Is the debate over yet?
Oh, it was just so long ago.
Hardline did not have the best hands on the team.
NO ONE EVER SAID HE DID!!!!!!!!!!!! FOR THE FREAKING LOVE OF GOD, YOU’RE ARGUING A NON-EXISTENT POINT!!!!!!!!!!
I stopped responding because of your cop out ā
All I ever said was that he was a sure-handed receiver. I’ve said this to you countless times now. He is. You are an idiot, and don’t even know what you’re arguing about.
How many times am I going to have to school you in this debate?
You went to and attend a far different school than we do. Ours operates on comprehension, acquired knowledge, logic, deductive reasoning, the scientific method, functioning retinal optics, and common sense.
Yours has Sarah Palin as Dean of Students and lists The Flat Earth Society as it’s most important booster. Basically every time you speak, you sound like Gary Busey trying to find a movie to watch.
Scream until rapture, but once again you find yourself in an argument where you’re basically trying to convince anyone who will listen that a tree is a stop sign.
I’m done listening to you, it actually makes my head hurt.
The only factual point you can infer from your data is that sportingcharts.com listed him as having 5 drops last season, the most of any player on the Browns. That doesnāt mean he HAD 5 drops because as I explained earlier the term ādropā is subjective.
Drops are subjective. In my view point, almost ever game that hartline played in and was passed a ball, the first past that was thrown to him was dropped. Yes, this is my viewpoint…..but this is how I felt – I don’t have the games on film and really have a tough time proving it….but it is what I saw. He also dropped 2 balls this season on third down that resulted in us kicking the ball at critical times.
can I win an argument about stats that are not a true stat? nope….but just maybe and I am saying this with a maybe, but perhaps the browns saw the same thing I did and not what some dumb ass “shoot mcgee” saw and that is why they got rid of him.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
What @dude just said is actually more factual than Soup’s whole argument with stats. The Dude premises everything by saying ‘in my point of view’ and ‘this is how I felt’. Fact: The Dude feels like every game Hartline would drop the first pass thrown his way. That is a real fact. It is impossible to argue against unless The Dude changes his mind. NOT A FACT: Hartline drops 6% of passes thrown his way and is twice as likely to drop a pass than Barnidge or Benji. That is not a fact because it is based on someone’s subjective opinion on what a drop is. It also jumps to conclusions that are not fully supported by the data.
Fact: This is the longest discussion we’ve ever had about a 3rd stringer we cut months ago.Oops, forgot about Manziel.
lol @ice
The fact that soup doesn’t understand facts is pretty factual in my opinion.
It is the offseason and arguing 3rd stringers is what has brought us here….of course, this one was a buckeye, so it gets a little more serious.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
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