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It’s situational. Steve Young in Tampa and Young in SF.
He’s absurd that’s for sure, but would he have developed the same here? Doubtful. He was on an established overall team. We don’t allow stability for that as proven again this year by firing Horton and in turn Hamilton walking.
Too hard to develop in a revolving door.
Starting next year we need 5 years straight of stability.
Freedom!!!
Put that guy on our team, and we’re in the playoffs every year.
He’s amazing. Why can’t we get a guy like that. With all the high picks we’ve had why can’t we get that kind of dude?“Guys like that” are incredibly rare. I get your point and you’re probably talking about getting a QB that can be in the top half of the league regularly, and not necessarily in the top : like Rodgers is.
But, it’s worth noting, incredibly rare. Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are the only guys in the last 20 years that are so good they can cover up their teams deficits and get them in the playoffs year in and year out.
I agree, we need a Franchise QB. But, think of how upset you’d be if some clown said “we just need a Joe Thomas type of LT.” sorry, they don’t make those.
And pass on Braylon Edwards? You must be joking. Besides, with Trent Dilfer holding down the fort we can get a QB like Charlie Frye in the 3rd.
All joking aside, wait a minute, that wasn’t a joke. That’s what we did. Shit.
Anyway, I think there is a QB like that in this draft. I’ve watched a lot of Packers football being stuck in Green Bay since 1998, and when I was breaking down college game film, one guy reminded me of Rodgers (and Favre a bit at times as well):
You guessed it. Patrick Mahomes II.
Like Rodgers, I don’t think Mahomes will be the first QB taken. But the arm talent, the mobility and the improvisation skills are almost uncanny. Sure, Rodgers has better footwork and he came from a Spread, not the Air Raid.
It’s not just me. Consider this Sports Illustrated article written January 11th of this year that has Mahomes listed as the #3 QB, ahead of NC’s Mitch Trubisky. Walter Football also ranks him as the third best QB, ahead of Deshaun Watson. Said Walter:
1/9/17: WalterFootball.com was the first to report that Mahomes was planning on entering the 2017 NFL Draft, and he announced that in early January. Mahomes is seeking out experienced NFL quarterback coaches to help him develop for his rookie season. Mahomes completed 66 percent of his passes in 2016 for 5,052 yards with 41 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. He also rushed for 12 touchdowns.
Some team sources are intrigued by Mahomes, but others are skeptics. Mahomes has a good arm and has flashed the ability to be a pocket passer. He also has athleticism with enough mobility to buy time and pick up some yards on the ground. Mahomes is a sleeper who could be a steal.
One playoff team told me they have a second-round grade on Mahomes and compare him to Derek Carr coming out of Fresno State. Two other teams said they had Mahomes in the third round, while one playoff general manager said he had him in Round 4. There is love/hate with Mahomes in part because of his college offense, but Mahomes is an accurate passer with a good arm, bulk, flashes of field vision, and mobility.
I get we all have differing opinions on who the next franchise QB will be. It doesn’t bug me in the least if you disagree with my assessment. I’ve watched Aaron Rodgers play a ton of football. I was talking about Patrick Mahomes II before most of you had even heard of him. Now major media outlets have him ranked above guys like Deshaun Watson and Mitch Trubisky. I get that he plays in the Air Raid in the defensively deficient Big 12, but unlike Manziel who had the 6’5″ Evans and Weeden who had the uber talented Justin Blackmon, Mahomes’ #1 and #2 receivers are both 5’11” tall and Texas Tech had no running game to speak of, its top 2 rushers combining for just 782 yards and 6 TD on the season (while Mahomes accounted for another 285 yards and 12 rushing TDs).
If Mahomes II is different than other Air Raid QBs in recent memory, it may be because of this:
“I’m going to be at EXOS in San Diego, out there training with Mike Sheppard. I think I’m going to go out there (Tuesday) and then I start training the next day. It will be a full-on, all-day training, eating right, getting as much mental work as I can. That’s going to be a big thing, learning NFL type systems.”
Instead of staying in school, Mahomes II chose to focus on preparing for the draft this Spring instead, working with former Chargers/Bills/Saints OC Mike Sheppard. Sheppard has served in various assistant position, including QB Coach for the Jacksonville Jaguars.
His dad was a professional athlete, and I have no doubt that Mahomes II understands what is going to be required of him to excel at the next level. I’m on record as saying that I think this kid is going to be great and I hope he ends up in Orange and Brown. I’ve been wrong before, I’ll be wrong again. I just see too many things going for this kid for him to fail now.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0My biggest concern with your Mahomes II strategy actually has nothing to do with Mahomes II. You’d love to get him at the top of the second, cuz you’d rather have Garrett and Peppers with our 1st two picks. I get that.
My problem is, what happens when a team like the Broncos or Texans or, conceivably, the Steelers, takes him in the back end of the 1st? We’re stuck with another year of RG3 or Kessler or somebody we reach on in the 2nd, and then hoping we’re in position to get a great prospect next year, which would mean another last place finish. I’m not willing to take that chance. We need to fill this hole now while we have the chance.
“Guys like that” are incredibly rare. I get your point and you’re probably talking about getting a QB that can be in the top half of the league regularly, and not necessarily in the top : like Rodgers is.
But, it’s worth noting, incredibly rare. Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are the only guys in the last 20 years that are so good they can cover up their teams deficits and get them in the playoffs year in and year out.With the amount of draft capital we’ve spent on QB’s since 1999, I think fate OWES us an Aaron Rodgers/Peyton Manning type QB. Someone who is just flat out amazing.
We are owed a competent front office to pick that QB rather than Manziel over bridgewater and Carr
Freedom!!!
My biggest concern with your Mahomes II strategy actually has nothing to do with Mahomes II. You’d love to get him at the top of the second, cuz you’d rather have Garrett and Peppers with our 1st two picks. I get that.
My problem is, what happens when a team like the Broncos or Texans or, conceivably, the Steelers, takes him in the back end of the 1st? We’re stuck with another year of RG3 or Kessler or somebody we reach on in the 2nd, and then hoping we’re in position to get a great prospect next year, which would mean another last place finish. I’m not willing to take that chance. We need to fill this hole now while we have the chance.
That is a very real problem. Ultimately we have to see how he grades out after the draft process. We have the ammunition to move back into the first round. We have the ammunition to mover back into the 2nd and 3rd round a few times. The “good thing” about this year is the number of teams picking between 13 and 24 (1 spot ahead of the Houston Texans) that have viable Franchise QB options.
13 Arizona Cardinals – Carson Palmer
14 Philadelphia Eagles – Carson Wentz
15 Indianapolis Colts – Andrew Luck
16 Baltimore Ravens – Joe Flacco
17 Washington Redskins – Kirk Cousins
18 Tennessee Titans – Marcus Mariota
19 Tamp Bay – Jameis Winston
20 Denver Broncos – Paxton Lynch
21 Detroit Lions – Matthew Stafford
22 Miami Dolphins – Ryan Tannehill
23 Oakland Raiders – Derek CarrIn addition to our 2 first round picks (Garrett, Hooker/Adams/Peppers – I hope) we have 2 seconds, a third, 3 fourths, 3 fifths, a six and a seventh. Statistically speaking, everything after round 3 is expendable. If Mahomes blows it up at the combine (which I believe he can), package some picks up and moving up to 18-21 range ahead of Houston (by trading with a team who may very well just miss out on “their guy”) should be easy. According to Walter’s draft value chart, pick #18 is worth 900 points. #33 is worth 580. #55 is worth 350. I also wouldn’t put it past a team to trade for our first round pick next year given the perceived strength of that QB class at the present moment. Like the 2000 Jets (Shaun Ellis, John Abraham, Chad Pennington and Anthony Brecht), I could see the Browns trying to get a number of “sure thing” picks in the first round of the 2017 draft.
Not saying I think that will happen, but just food for thought.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0Interesting thought. I’m not opposed to trading up because this team has enough youth, we need more high end talent. However, I wouldn’t touch next years 1st round pick. The most optimistic fans would estimate that to be at 10-12. No way to I use that to move up to the mid teens this year.
I should also modify my previous post to add the exception that I’m completely opposed to trading with Miami. If we pick another QB at #22 I’m gonna die of alcohol poisoning.
Interesting thought. I’m not opposed to trading up because this team has enough youth, we need more high end talent. However, I wouldn’t touch next years 1st round pick. The most optimistic fans would estimate that to be at 10-12. No way to I use that to move up to the mid teens this year.
I’m not saying you do, but if you thought Mahomes II was the next Rodgers, and you landed Garrett and Hooker/Adams/Peppers on defense and could add Mahomes in the bottom of the first, you wouldn’t trade your next year’s first round pick?
If you’re wrong about Mahomes, that 1st rounder is easily a top 10 pick. If you’re right, I think the Browns are a legitimate playoff contender (especially if Garrett and the Safety are as good as they appear to be and we finally get a legit Franchise ).
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0If you think Mahomes is the next Rodgers, you take him #1. Im not saying we should do that, I’m just saying if there’s a QB in this draft we feel THAT strongly about, we shouldn’t hesitate.
As it is, no I wouldn’t spend next years first. At that point, we’ve already passed on him twice, so we must not feel THAT strongly about him. And realistically, even if we add Garret , a safety, and Mahomes, we’re still looking at pickin 10-12. We barely won 1 game this year, and couldn’t beat the Steelers JV team. 3 rookies aren’t going to magically change that overnight.
So, do I trade pick 33 and 2018 pick #12ish for pick #20? No. No way it hell. In fact, I hate trading away future picks at all, because a future 1st is consider a 2nd this year by trade value, and that is bogus. A 1st is a 1st to me. It’s only less valuable because the guys getting the pick don’t know if theyll be employed long enough to use it. I don’t care about their jobs, I care about the Browns. So, I consider a 1st a 1st. Just my 2 cents.
Now, if you wanna talk about packaging some of our later picks this year, I’m all ears. Like I said, we need to think about moving up and adding more quality, because when it comes to youth, we have plenty of quantity.
If you think Mahomes is the next Rodgers, you take him #1. Im not saying we should do that, I’m just saying if there’s a QB in this draft we feel THAT strongly about, we shouldn’t hesitate.
The issue here is that what I think is not necessarily what is factual. Mahomes could be the next Rodgers. Mahomes could be the greatest QB to ever play. Mahomes could flame out and not start a single game. What I think is plagued with uncertainty, and where I am willing to draft him (after we address our needs at DE and S with more known commodities) is not a result of his actual talent, but in the lack of certainty I have based on the offense he ran and the conference he played in.
As it is, no I wouldn’t spend next years first. At that point, we’ve already passed on him twice, so we must not feel THAT strongly about him. And realistically, even if we add Garret , a safety, and Mahomes, we’re still looking at pickin 10-12. We barely won 1 game this year, and couldn’t beat the Steelers JV team. 3 rookies aren’t going to magically change that overnight.
Not necessarily true. I take a long position in stocks I feel very strongly about. I hedge those investments with options to minimize my risk. It doesn’t mean that I don’t feel strongly about them, it is merely the realization that I am an outsider that doesn’t have all the information. Taking a DE like Garrett and a Saftey like Hooker/Adams/Peppers hedges my risk on the QB, especially if we significantly bolster the roster in Free Agency.
So, do I trade pick 33 and 2018 pick #12ish for pick #20? No. No way it hell. In fact, I hate trading away future picks at all, because a future 1st is consider a 2nd this year by trade value, and that is bogus. A 1st is a 1st to me. It’s only less valuable because the guys getting the pick don’t know if theyll be employed long enough to use it. I don’t care about their jobs, I care about the Browns. So, I consider a 1st a 1st. Just my 2 cents.
If the idea is to “win now”, 1 in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. What you say about the risk to the GM being associated with their career uncertainty is completely factual. Additionally, if the player taken this year works out (especially at the QB position), the future pick will be worth even less because of the increase in the number wins that p[layer brings to the organization.
Now, if you wanna talk about packaging some of our later picks this year, I’m all ears. Like I said, we need to think about moving up and adding more quality, because when it comes to youth, we have plenty of quantity.
I’m definitely on board with that as well. Statistically speaking, players drafted in the first three rounds have a much higher chance of making the roster and (on average) significantly longer careers than those taken in the 5th/6th/7th.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0
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