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There’s a lot of talk that Kizer needs to sit and learn so he “doesn’t get ruined.” Here’s the case for starting Kizer – and that it won’t ruin him.
Perspective
1. A lot of the argument as he needs to sit watch and learn by seeing the speed from the sideline and the tape in he game room. The biggest issue with this line of thinking? Perspective.
The game is played norht and south. If he’s on the sidelines his perspective is vastly different from what he’d see as a QB on the field. If he’s watching east to west he’s losing half the field and a lot of the line movements. He’s losing what it really looks like to spot coverage from the area you are at on the field as a QB.
Think about it this way. If you were in Oregon yesterday you witnessed the eclipse. You saw the full effect. My perspective in Pittsburgh? A crecsent sun. We saw the same event from different perspectives. My view was “obstructed” there’s was dead on where you needed to be to understand it fully.
Same applies to the film room. Things are easy to judge/see on TV. It’s much more difficult when you’re right up against it. Time moves faster because your overall perspective and vision changes.
Overall seeing things from the proper perspective game 1 will allow his development to excel.
The o-line
2. This isn’t a Tim Couch situation (or name most any young QB we’ve had). He will have a HOF LT, pro-bowl LG, solid C, pro-bowl RG and a solid RT protecting him.
Andy Dalton, Ben Roethlisberger, RG3 ROOKIE year, Russell Wilson.
3. Andy Dalton 2nd round pick. Started game #1 in this same division and the team went to the playoffs. While not a superstar – he’s a very solid QB who learned on the job.
2011 Cincy – 20th in the NFL in pass attempts 10th in the NFL in rushing attempts
Big Ben (while he didnt’ start game #1, was in game #2 ). HOF QB.
2004 Steelers – #1 in rushing attempts #32 in passing attempts.
RG3 – made the playoffs as a rookie and had a bright future until the knee happened. How’d they do it?
WAsshington 2012 – #3 in rushing attempts, #30 in passing attempts.
Russell Wilson 3rd round pick starting day 1. I’d call him a keeper.
Seattle 2012 – #1 rushing attempts, #32 passing attempts.
Keep it simple. Put the burden on the o-line and supporting cast.
4. Look at the above stats. What do you see? 4 QBs not being asked to do too much at all.
If we go in with the mind set that we will limit his throws and play the clock game and pound the football, he can learn to read a defense. He can see the speed of the game. He can correct his mistakes – all from the same perspective. It’s about properly bringing him along on the field and not asking him to do too much.
Brock Osweiler
5. He will not be on the Browns next year. If memory serves me right he’s lead the Browns to 0 points in 2 pre-season games as the starter. His YPA is 3 (give or take a 10th of a yard). Yes, you read that right — 3 YARDS PER ATTEMPT in the pre-season.
On the flip side Kizer has lead the Browns to 3 TDs (1 passing and 1 rushing himself). His YPA is closer to 7 (5.7 last night and over 10 in his debut). Either way – his YPA is more than double that of Osweiler.
The time to win is NOW
6. The time to win is always now. Kizer has shown he’s the best QB on the roster (may I remind you I loathed this pick and wanted Kessler to begin day 1 if we didn’t take Watson). Osweiler has shown he’s actually worse than we imagined. So lt’s actually put the best QB on the field day 1 and not use some trumped up excuse to start a terrible QB that will nver lead us anywhere and won’t even be in the uniform next season. I’m tired of that game. If playing him now will “ruin him” then he’s not going to be good when playing him in the future.
Thoughts? Rebuttals?
Freedom!!!
Now, I just want to state up front that I’m all for Kizer staying on the bench for a while. I don’t want to see this kid ruined (especially when he takes off running and nearly gets himself killed…after looking right at an open Seth DeValve).
However, these are hard facts to argue. As are these numbers…
Edit: pre-edit, I couldn’t get this image to show up. Added a link to the photo.
i agree with all of Soups post, completely. As far as ruining him, I don’t see where keeping him on the bench will teach him to slide. I agree he can’t take as many hits as he did last night, but that’s something that can only be learned on the field.
Now, I just want to state up front that I’m all for Kizer staying on the bench for a while. I don’t want to see this kid ruined (especially when he takes off running and nearly gets himself killed…after looking right at an open Seth DeValve).
However, these are hard facts to argue. As are these numbers…
https://ibb.co/fZZGnQ
Edit: pre-edit, I couldn’t get this image to show up. Added a link to the photo.What would run him? Obviously stupid hits. But he’s going to take hits next year then. What’s it matter if it’s now or later?
Freedom!!!
Let’s just say we have a history for ruining quarterbacks. As to how, we always find a way. I just don’t want to see the kid get killed.
And so you know, the case is there for him to play, and play now. Call it a hunch or a lesson from history, but I get the feeling that playing him game one would be a mistake…and yet, he seems to be our best option. I dunno.
This is in no way disagreeing with your post. Maybe he’ll be great. But…well, I’m a skeptical/optimistic Browns fan. You know how it is.
That’s a big post Soup. Honestly it reminds me a bit of Tree’s “Enviable Cockpit” rant.
The number one reason that Kizer should sit is that he’s not ready. Had he stayed in school he’d be a college junior right now and they’d start really giving him the reigns and start opening up the offense into maybe 30-40 plays. Instead he’s in the NFL trying to learn an offense with hundreds of plays. He’s also trying to read defenses that he’s never seen before with defenders licking their chops at tricking him into bad decisions. It takes time to learn all that. He’s got a lot less experience than the guys you listed, he’s basically only had 1 1/2 years experience in college.
We saw it when he took the field against the Giants. He is way more athletic and a better passer than Osweiler but the offense was a shitshow when he was out there. I commented during the game that everyone looked confused on offense. He made some awesome plays thanks to his innate natural abilities but he isn’t ready to run an NFL offense yet.
Personally I’d start Osweiler and have a few packages for Kizer to come in and run during the game. He’d know those packages inside and out and be confident running them. As he gets confident with more packages, I’d let him run them during the game.
Kizer is starting the 3rd preseason game. Just announced
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
Well looks like the decision to start Kizer in game 3 has been made. I think a browns coach has finally made the correct decision. Let the best player play. Too many times it’s always the same thing put the guy on a bench for a year and let them learn. Well that is garbage. Play the best player at this point.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Kizer will like most rookies have his ups and downs this year, I”m willing to put up with this as i’m sure most Browns fans are if he grows from both his mistakes as well as his successes. hope fully he’ll make drafting another QB early next draft Unlikely and allow us to use all those picks on other things like Haden’s replacement, joe Thomas’s replacement maybe a true #1 wideout. heck this team will be on the cusp.
Kizer is starting the 3rd preseason game. Just announced
Which means he’s starting game 1.
Freedom!!!
That’s a big post Soup. Honestly it reminds me a bit of Tree’s “Enviable Cockpit” rant.
The number one reason that Kizer should sit is that he’s not ready. Had he stayed in school he’d be a college junior right now and they’d start really giving him the reigns and start opening up the offense into maybe 30-40 plays. Instead he’s in the NFL trying to learn an offense with hundreds of plays. He’s also trying to read defenses that he’s never seen before with defenders licking their chops at tricking him into bad decisions. It takes time to learn all that. He’s got a lot less experience than the guys you listed, he’s basically only had 1 1/2 years experience in college.
We saw it when he took the field against the Giants. He is way more athletic and a better passer than Osweiler but the offense was a shitshow when he was out there. I commented during the game that everyone looked confused on offense. He made some awesome plays thanks to his innate natural abilities but he isn’t ready to run an NFL offense yet.
Personally I’d start Osweiler and have a few packages for Kizer to come in and run during the game. He’d know those packages inside and out and be confident running them. As he gets confident with more packages, I’d let him run them during the game.You say the offense was a shitshow with Kizer on the field. Overall in 2 games he lead the team to 24 points.
Brock Osweiler? 0 points and a 3 YPA average. That’s a shitshow if I ever saw one. Defenses are hoping for a big lurpy guy that can’t hit the broad side of a barn.
The defense licks their chops with all rookies. The point is for the coaching staff to be smart with what they ask him to do. Have a set amount of plays for game 1 and add a few more each week. It’s EXACTLY what the Steelers did with a MAC QB in Big Ben.
You said it yourself, he’s been better than Osweiler. You haven’t given any evidence towards what he’s done to show he’s not ready.
Look at Wentz last year – all they did was turn and throw screens all year knowing he was a rookie from a terrible conference.
Freedom!!!
Let’s just say we have a history for ruining quarterbacks. As to how, we always find a way. I just don’t
So in sales my job is to find a clients pain point. I just found yours, history of ruining QBs.
Cleveland Browns 1st round QBs:
1. Tim Couch – on an expansion team. 4 yearslater lead us to our lone playoff appearance since 1999. Benched the following year by a moron who said Ladanian Tomlinson was too small for the NFL and that Gerard Warren was better than Richard Seymour.
2.Brady Quinn – Played in 1 game as a rookie. December 30 2007. Went 3-8. AKA he sat for a year like you want Kizer to do. How’d that work out?
3. Brandon Weeden – He was NOT 1st round material and was 854 years old and a finished product.
4. Johnny Manziel – at best he was 7th round material with no skills whatsoever for the NFL. He started only 2 games as a rookie. AKA he essentially sat for a year. (he threw 34 passes total)
2nd round QBs:
1. Deshone Kizer – N/A
5 QB’s taken combined in rounds 1 and 2 sine 1999. 2 guys essentially sat an entire year. The other 2 started – one leading us to the playoffs in year 4. Final guy is a rookie yet to play in a real game
People claiming we ruin QB’s is a myth.
Freedom!!!
I dont know how anyone can argue osweiller should start…. I mean he is not even close on most of his passes. Like he is really bad. Joe Thomas needs to stick to what he is good at and not picking bad qbs.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Let’s just say we have a history for ruining quarterbacks. As to how, we always find a way. I just don’t
So in sales my job is to find a clients pain point. I just found yours, history of ruining QBs.
Cleveland Browns 1st round QBs:
1. Tim Couch – on an expansion team. 4 yearslater lead us to our lone playoff appearance since 1999. Benched the following year by a moron who said Ladanian Tomlinson was too small for the NFL and that Gerard Warren was better than Richard Seymour.
2.Brady Quinn – Played in 1 game as a rookie. December 30 2007. Went 3-8. AKA he sat for a year like you want Kizer to do. How’d that work out?
3. Brandon Weeden – He was NOT 1st round material and was 854 years old and a finished product.
4. Johnny Manziel – at best he was 7th round material with no skills whatsoever for the NFL. He started only 2 games as a rookie. AKA he essentially sat for a year. (he threw 34 passes total)
2nd round QBs:
1. Deshone Kizer – N/A
5 QB’s taken combined in rounds 1 and 2 sine 1999. 2 guys essentially sat an entire year. The other 2 started – one leading us to the playoffs in year 4. Final guy is a rookie yet to play in a real game
People claiming we ruin QB’s is a myth.Well, most QBs. It’s basically the graveyard for those that throw passes…not just rookies.
Look, he’s starting, and I hope that he does light years better than those that came before. I hope he does as well as Big Ben (minus the rape). I hope we finally build a contender and start getting into the playoffs.
Your reasoning is sound. If we can lean on our running game, and if we can bring him along as you say, then it definitely has exciting implications.
Just don’t expect me to get my hopes up. I know better.
You say the offense was a shitshow with Kizer on the field. Overall in 2 games he lead the team to 24 points.
It was a shitshow. Again you only look at the stats and not the actual game. I know you watched at least part of the game because you were in the chat with us, did that look like an offense firing on all cylinders to you?
Brock Osweiler? 0 points and a 3 YPA average. That’s a shitshow if I ever saw one. Defenses are hoping for a big lurpy guy that can’t hit the broad side of a barn.[\quote] I’m not saying the offense was good with Osweiler in. He’s a backup at best.
[quote]You said it yourself, he’s been better than Osweiler. You haven’t given any evidence towards what he’s done to show he’s not ready.I said he’s way more talented than Os. I don’t have to prove that a guy is not ready to play QB in the NFL, because that is the default state. The burden of proof is on you who think he is ready. What have you seen that makes you think he can run an NFL offense? He’s a good passer but he’s got training wheels on. In preseason the defense has training wheels on too so it evens out a bit. You think the Steelers won’t be prepared to defend the 20 plays that Kizer can run efficiently? As we’ve seen with Manziel this isn’t college. It takes a lot more than talent to win in the NFL. Kizer has talent but he needs time, especially since his college experience is so slim.
Hue seems to be saying he’s a fast learner and he’s picking stuff up quickly. I guess we’ll see come week 1 how fast he learned. He’s getting thrown to the wolves and if we march out there running some stupid read and react offense we’ll get destroyed.
What I’m saying is this.
Kizer has, unquestionably, outplayed Osweiler. I wouldn’t say the offense was a shit show under Kizer. I’d say it was typical rookie mistakes/learning.
Under Osweiler? That was a shitshow. He’s now on his 3rd team in a row proving he’s not starter quality.
What I’m saying is Kizer has outplayed Osweiler and Kessler. therefore he’s the best on the roster and starting him won’t ruin him.
Being smart with offensive playcalls is what’s needed. Rely on the run game and defense and don’t ask him to do to much.
Can you ask Osweiler to do more? Obviously. Is he going to execute it? Obvioulsy not. So why go through it?
Freedom!!!
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