- This topic has 38 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 8 months ago by
.
- Posts
TJ Carrie is most surprising to me. He was a very reliable backup/nickel CB and still had 2 years left on his deal. The rest would have had difficulty making next year’s roster.
Excel spreadsheet sheets got us Corey Coleman. He didn’t rank well when baseball guy hit “sort” so he’s gone
Freedom!!!
Excel spreadsheet sheets got us Corey Coleman. He didn’t rank well when baseball guy hit “sort” so he’s gone
Carrie is going to be 30 before the season, was set to make over 8 mil this year, and was being paid like the 25th-30th best corner in the league.
Please explain how the 4th best cornerback on our team is worth that.
Go ahead. I’ll wait.
Demetrius Harris always seemed like a promising rookie, with good hands and range to make catches over and around defenders. Then I found out he was 28 and in his sixth season. No big loss.
TJ Carrie will be missed, but he was set to be way overpaid as a third corner. We’d better do some serious shopping for our secondary, however.
Saw someone on a website call him “Incompletrius Harris” and it was hilarious.
It was me. On this website. Right now.
Excel spreadsheet sheets got us Corey Coleman. He didn’t rank well when baseball guy hit “sort” so he’s gone
Carrie is going to be 30 before the season, was set to make over 8 mil this year, and was being paid like the 25th-30th best corner in the league.
Please explain how the 4th best cornerback on our team is worth that.
Go ahead. I’ll wait.For the last 5 years at least we’ve sucked with having $50 million on cap left. His $8 million in one year is money ball talking. These guys are so focused on big cap room that they ignore everything else. His $8 million is meaningless. Groom a new guy and let him go the following year. Massive cap room doesn’t = wins.
Freedom!!!
For the last 5 years at least we’ve sucked with having $50 million on cap left. His $8 million in one year is money ball talking. These guys are so focused on big cap room that they ignore everything else. His $8 million is meaningless. Groom a new guy and let him go the following year. Massive cap room doesn’t = wins.
How is stating what a guy is making in any way analytics? He signed a 4 year, $31 mil deal. He’s getting paid in the top 30 for his position, and he’s not a starter, so he’s not in the top 64 by play.
None of that is analytics. That’s basic math. Very, very basic math. Like, 3rd, maybe 4th grade level.
As for “groom a new guy and let him go the following year…”. WE JUST DID THAT WITH GREEDY. We have Ward and Mitchell, there’s no reason to keep Carrie.
Im not advocating being cheap, but paying your 4th CB starting money is just plain foolish. And you’ve made no argument to the contrary, just a lot of grumbling about analytics.
We have the cap room. We have 3 corners. You need 4. Why do you care what he’s currently paid? What impact does that have?
Moneyball is exactly what Depodesta is known for. Your point on his pay would be far more valid if we were topping the cap
Freedom!!!
Carrie is an above-average nickel CB but at $8mil he’s grossly overpaid. We could pay $3m-$4m for a good nickel CB and have $4m extra cap room to help us sign a safety or tackle.
We have the cap room. We have 3 corners. You need 4. Why do you care what he’s currently paid? What impact does that have?
Moneyball is exactly what Depodesta is known for. Your point on his pay would be far more valid if we were topping the capThat BS logic could be applied to justify paying any cornerback any amount of money.
We’re not talking about cutting a starter here. He’s 3rd or 4th best cb, depending how you feel about Mitchell. And Mitchell is 3 years younger.
If they cut starters for salary cap reasons I’ll be pissed, but we’re not gonna miss carrie at all.
It’s a new defense. Using the salary cap as justification when you aren’t using all of it this year is nonsense. Meaningless.
You’re saying he’s not with the money yet you have no idea who is replacing him and if that person will be as good. It’s that simple. If they replace with someone the same or better than it’s a win, but if they are worse then what?
Freedom!!!
If they replace with someone the same or better than it’s a win, but if they are worse then what?
So we shouldn’t judge this as a bad OR good move until we see how it turns up, right? Instead of flipping out at releasing an overpaid player? What if that money allows us to sign a high quality guard for 4 years, would that be a win? I think it could be.
TJ Carries $8 m salary is not inhibiting any deal with the cap room we have. That’s like saying Jeff Bezos will go broke buying a gumball
Freedom!!!
Sweet God I feel so disgusting agreeing with Soup.
But I do. This is simply moneyball. And all that cap room means dick since A) we never use it, and B) no one wants to sign here anyway unless we grossly overpay them, which is exactly why THIS move was made so, ipso facto, we’re just gonna cut people and never sign new ones while leading the league in cap space and losses.
Like we do ever year.
I have to go take a shower now and get all the Soup off of me.
And yet, you can’t make an argument that T.J. Carrie is worth 8 million this year. His salary was the 10th highest on the team. And he’s not a starter. Think about that.
Joe Schobert, Damarious Randall, Eric Murray, Justin Burris, Greg Robinson, and Rasheed Higgins are all going to be free agents. You don’t think some of that money will be used to signs them?
The reality is we don’t seriously underspend, we’re just continuously carrying over a bunch of cap space from missing on 12 consecutive 1st rounders.
I don’t care about the salaries. Every player you mentioned could be resigned at their “value” and added to Carrie and it wouldn’t make a dent in the cap room.
If Joe Woods comes and says “Carrie is a skilled DB, but his skill set is different than what will be utilized in my defense “ then I wouldn’t bat an eye at it. But this is straight up moneyball
Freedom!!!
Well then get ready for more of the same. Olivier Vernon is making $13m this year. He’s going to be resigned or released soon, no way we’re keeping him at that price.
And yet, you can’t make an argument that T.J. Carrie is worth 8 million this year.
Sure I can.
He’s a solid player and 8 million dollars isn’t that much money. Especially when we’re so far under the cap. He’s not a Pro-bowler, but he’s a productive contributor and a veteran presence that has value to a team horrendously thin in the secondary after Ward and Greedy and his salary has little impact to a team 50 million under the cap.
Case made.
Olivier Vernon is making $13m this year. He’s going to be resigned or released soon, no way we’re keeping him at that price.
Well I’m okay with the 3 sacks and 7 tackles he made last year no longer being a part of our team.
TJ Carrie got burned more last year than when I was learning to cook steaks on the grill growing up.
He was overpaid and is aging. He had no place on this team.
Harris was okay as a rookie. He did have some key drops though.
Kush was a revolving door before he lost his starting spot.
Taylor was a special teams player and can be easily replaced.Harris is the one that sorta shocked me.
Olivier Vernon is making $13m this year. He’s going to be resigned or released soon, no way we’re keeping him at that price.
Well I’m okay with the 3 sacks and 7 tackles he made last year no longer being a part of our team.
How does everyone of your arguments about Carrie not apply to Vernon? How are you ok with letting a pro bowl caliber starter let go for cap reasons, but your upset that a 3rd/4th CB Is let go for cap reasons? You said yourself you think the salary cap means dick.
Vernon is easily the 2nd best DE on the team. It’s not a debate. His presence actually makes a difference. He’s overpaid, but at least he’s still better than the other options. The hypocrisy is unreal.
Olivier Vernon is making $13m this year. He’s going to be resigned or released soon, no way we’re keeping him at that price.
Well I’m okay with the 3 sacks and 7 tackles he made last year no longer being a part of our team.
How does everyone of your arguments about Carrie not apply to Vernon? How are you ok with letting a pro bowl caliber starter let go for cap reasons, but your upset that a 3rd/4th CB Is let go for cap reasons? You said yourself you think the salary cap means dick.
Vernon is easily the 2nd best DE on the team. It’s not a debate. His presence actually makes a difference. He’s overpaid, but at least he’s still better than the other options. The hypocrisy is unreal.+1 to this. Vernon has been hurt a bunch the last couple years, but that can happen. He’s good for 8 sacks when healthy, plays the run well, and keeps the blockers from loading up against Garrett. Overpaid? Sure. We’ll also overpay his replacement because nobody wants to play here, and we’ll also overpay his replacements backup because nobody want to play here. So there’s no reason not to keep him.
You guys realize Baker (if he becomes the franchise qb we think he can be) and Myles could eat up $50 million between the two of them. You get that, right?
That’s not hyperbole that’s not exaggeration. That’s the current state of the NFL.How does everyone of your arguments about Carrie not apply to Vernon? The hypocrisy is unreal.
True but at least I admit it.
Also at this point arguing over Carrie is pointless because he’s gone so who gives a fuck really? He’s gone it’s over and there’s really not much left to discuss on that front lol.
As for Vernon……….I dunno. He did have some good games and a couple nice stretches, and I mentioned as much on TBL, but he was far below the hype level. We may as well go ahead and pay him though because as I mentioned we’re so far below the cap this year that it’s irrelevant anyway. 13 million could probably be wasted on someone worse.
He’s a solid dude but for me he greatly, greatly under performed.
You guys realize Baker and Myles could eat up $50 million between the two of them. You get that, right?
Of course, but not this year. And not next year either. And not even the year after that. Myles still has 2 years left on his rookie deal and Baker has 3. (Someone correct me on that if I’m wrong, but I don’t think I am).
It won’t be until 4 years from now that we have Baker and Myles BOTH signed to huge deals. So until then, I don’t really care.
Carrie’s 8 million cap figure is high.
According to Profootballfocus, QBs completed 46-of-62 passes to men covered by Carrie, a 116.2 passer rating.
He definitely wasn’t worth keeping at any price.
True but at least I admit it.
Also at this point arguing over Carrie is pointless because he’s gone so who gives a fuck really? He’s gone it’s over and there’s really not much left to discuss on that front lol.Haha, as long as you acknowledge the hypocrisy, I’ll let it go. I do agree with the rest you said about Vernon.
As for Carrie, my argument was more about the reasoning behind the move than the player. Soup was upset saying analytics is driving us to release Carrie. I don’t see it that way. I think it’s a clear cut cap management move that any team would make. With the cap at ~$200 million, a 53 man roster had to average just under $4 million a player. With that in mind, you can’t justify paying a 3rd/4th string CB $8 million. It just doesn’t make sense, and there’s no advance math necessary to see that.
Of course, but not this year. And not next year either. And not even the year after that. Myles still has 2 years left on his rookie deal and Baker has 3. (Someone correct me on that if I’m wrong, but I don’t think I am).
It won’t be until 4 years from now that we have Baker and Myles BOTH signed to huge deals. So until then, I don’t really care.Wanted to address this separately. You are technically incorrect, but you’re numbers reflect the reality of the situation.
Myles has ONE year remaining on his deal, while Baker has TWO years remaining. Though, since both are first round picks, both have fifth year team options on their contracts. Those wouldn’t be the bank breaking amounts they’ll likely both eventually get, but will still be big numbers, around $15 mil, I think. You’ll have to excuse Browns fans from not knowing the particulars on fifth year options, as the Browns have NEVER exercised the option on one of their picks. That’s how spectacularly awful we have been at drafting.
Anyway, my point is the fifth years carry decent cap numbers, and then you have to consider that it’s be pretty foolish to wait until they’ve played all 5 years and then sign them to a long term contract. So, assuming extensions get done prior to that, you’re looking at some money coming up for Myles NEXT year, and Baker the year after. And you’ve also got Denzel Ward in the same boat as Baker. And Chubb, being a 2nd round pick, doesn’t have a fifth year option so he’ll be forcing the Browns hand sooner than Baker and Ward.
I realize $50 mil is still a lot of money, but with that many contracts coming up, and a lot of holes still to fill in the line and at safety, there’s good reason not to throw money away because we have the money at the moment.
You are technically incorrect in saying the Browns have never exercised one of their own players fifth year option.
Phil Taylor’s fifth year option was actually exercised before the start of year 4 (May 2, 2014). He was cut Sep 1, 2015 before the start of the regular season.Note:
They did pick up Randall’s fifth year option after trading for him but he wasn’t drafted by them.
Note 2:
Corey Coleman had his fifth year option picked up by the NY Football Giants.
Corey Coleman had his fifth year option picked up by the NY Football Giants.
OMG WHY
Though, since both are first round picks, both have fifth year team options on their contracts.
I was including the 5th year option.
Also……the franchise tag is an option as well. They could not sign Myles to long term deal next year, exercise his option, STILL not sign him, tag him, and THEN extend him.
Highly unlikely, not prudent, and doubtful to work out well in the end…….but possible lol.
You are technically incorrect in saying the Browns have never exercised one of their own players fifth year option.
Phil Taylor’s fifth year option was actually exercised before the start of year 4 (May 2, 2014). He was cut Sep 1, 2015 before the start of the regular season.
Note:
They did pick up Randall’s fifth year option after trading for him but he wasn’t drafted by them.
Note 2:
Corey Coleman had his fifth year option picked up by the NY Football Giants.Didn’t know we did that with Phil Taylor. That’s about the Brownsiest thing ever. I knew about Randall but didn’t count him since we didn’t draft him.
Corey Coleman, though, was traded to the Bills and then cut, so he couldn’t have had his fifth year option picked up as the giants signed him to a new contract that paid much less than his rookie deal.
Shooter, I just googled it and for top 10 picks, the fifth year option value is the transition tag value, which is the average of the top 10 players salaries at their respective positions. For QBS, it was 22 mil and DEs it was ~15 mil last year. Which is only going to go up. So, if you go those routes, that’s still 37 million your eating up with those 2.
Though, one thing I hadn’t considered last night is that they are high picks, so their cap numbers aren’t small right now. So, it’s not like we’re paying them 400K and going to 37 mil. The actual difference (meaning impact to the salary cap space) is much less, maybe $15 mil as a guess without looking it up.
Anywho i forgot where I was going with that, and that’s all I’ve got.
My guess would be that the Giants are more clueless than anyone realizes. I can’t believe the picked up Corey Coleman’s option.
I didn’t know that about Phil Taylor either until I read it. And yes I agree cutting him before year 5 after picking up his option is about the Brownsiest thing ever. LOL.
The notes were more FYI than anything else. Still, not having a single one of our own first round selections actually play in year 5 just shows how inept we are at developing players after we draft them.
That is one of the reasons I like Stefanski. He actually mentioned player development in his press conference. I don’t feel that every first round draft pick sucked (some did though) but feel like we never properly developed them once they got here. I am hoping that chances with Stefanski..Shooter, I just googled it and for top 10 picks, the fifth year option value is the transition tag value, which is the average of the top 10 players salaries at their respective positions. For QBS, it was 22 mil and DEs it was ~15 mil last year. Which is only going to go up. So, if you go those routes, that’s still 37 million your eating up with those 2.
I love the fact that Ice begs pleads grovels and flat-out demands that anyone fact check him regularly because he’s lazy, and no one does. I ask……..and by magic…..facts appear.
See what happens Ice when you have a semi-regular internet show that garners tens and tens of viewers? Fucking respect bro.
I feel like Leo right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unrelated, but I miss Phil Taylor. Dude was a beast on the field and a great dude, just had some bad luck with injuries.
I don’t understand why the Browns would let go of such an impact player on our all pro secondary that helped us win so many games last year.
This entire thread sums up Browns fans. Wanting to keep poor talent.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
My point on a view is this. The new gm thinks he can make the team better by cuttung what he see’s as deadwood to create cap space.
Now if he does address these issues by signing quality replacements that play at the same level for cheaper or even better he gets a better quality player replacemnt.
The all the belly achen in this thread was for not.
Now if shits the bed, well I will join in on the piling on real quick.
Bottom line all the facts are yet to be known so the negativity IMO is warrented till the results are in. Same for praise if he does well.
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.