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I’ve lost the little faith I had in the Browns FO.
Creating two holes at LB before free agency even begins. It makes no sense whatsoever.
So now, we need 1-2 safeties, 2 LBs, 1 G, and 2 Tackles. Awesome.
And if you think the Browns are going to fill a lot of holes via Free Agency, I invite you to look at the state of Salary Cap space across the league. There are a LOT of teams with stupid money to spend.
Free agents are going to be expensive, and most quality players will not reach free agency. It’s always the case, but even more so this year, and the salary cap has ballooned over the last 5 years.
Spreadsheets don’t lie. Glad you are finally starting to understand moneyball and King Excel. Look for Vernon being cut soon. I wouldn’t be shocked if we traded Beckham, Garrett and Mayfield. Tear down coming
Freedom!!!
I understand the move, but Kirksey will be missed. He’s a good dude and as long as he stays out of the division I’ll wish him well.
Vernon will not come back at his current salary, zero chance. He’ll either renegotiate it or be released.
I understand the move, but Kirksey will be missed. He’s a good dude and as long as he stays out of the division I’ll wish him well.
Vernon will not come back at his current salary, zero chance. He’ll either renegotiate it or be released.You’re probably not wrong, but it’s just ridiculous. We have plenty of money. There’s no reason to cut him.
Spreadsheets don’t lie. Glad you are finally starting to understand moneyball and King Excel. Look for Vernon being cut soon. I wouldn’t be shocked if we traded Beckham, Garrett and Mayfield. Tear down coming
Moneyball doesn’t even make sense in the NFL. The salary cap and revenue sharing make it an entirely different landscape from the MLB. Throwing around the term Moneyball automatically negates anything else you say.
Spreadsheets don’t lie. Glad you are finally starting to understand moneyball and King Excel. Look for Vernon being cut soon. I wouldn’t be shocked if we traded Beckham, Garrett and Mayfield. Tear down coming
Moneyball doesn’t even make sense in the NFL. The salary cap and revenue sharing make it an entirely different landscape from the MLB. Throwing around the term Moneyball automatically negates anything else you say.
That’s the only reason he was hired. He has zero qualifications otherwise. You hate what they are doing because they have the money….that’s not how Depodesta is willing to allocate it due to his formula.
Freedom!!!
Moneyball doesn’t even make sense in the NFL.
You’re exactly right.
Now you can see why Soup and I are flipping out about it. You’re right, it DOESN’T make any sense.
At all.
Yet here we are. Doing it.
The only case that could be made in favor of getting rid of Kirksey is his injury history. It is pretty significant, and I’ll admit needs to be factored in. However, when he’s actually in and playing, he’s doing so at a very high level. A pro-bowl level. Personally I don’t understand it. You let Joe Schobert walk in free agency and now you’re cutting another really good player (albeit, an oft injured one). A position of strength on our team has now quickly become a position of glaring weakness. And you know who’s gonna replace him? A 5th round pick out of Onestoplight University because that’s what the spreadsheet says is the best person to do it, and for a rookie rate. There’s a term for that……..it’s Moneyball.
I know that you don’t believe that this is what’s going on, and that it in any way going to be bad for the browns, but I’m telling you man, yo are NOT going to like what the future holds for this team now that Paul Depodesta won the power struggle and is doing things his way. It IS happening the way Soup and I are saying it is, and it’s going to be bad. Very, very bad.
Our entire team is going to be built based on a mathematical algorithm on 1 laptop. That’s not a joke.
But we will be.
The term Moneyball refers to the Oakland A’s revolutionizing their player evaluation and roster building methods, which allowed them to compete with more talented teams, despite not having the most conventionally talented, aka high priced players. They had to do that because they were constrained by their available salary, as is the case with small market MLB teams.
But, none of that applies to the NFL. None of it. Due to revenue sharing, each team can compete and pay up to the salary cap.
Look, you all act like Haslam is trying to be cheap and make money by not paying for players. But here’s the thing, the salary cap is rolled over every year. 100% of teams roll over 100% of unused salary cap space. So, in the short term Haslam saves a few dollars more than other teams, but not in the long term.
You can blame this on analytics, but not Moneyball. They are not the same. And honestly, I don’t think this is the result of some kind of spreadsheet revolution going on, and I don’t think the Browns are trying to field the least expensive roster of all time. I think these decisions all make sense in a vacuum. Joe Scho and Kirkpatrick probably aren’t worth they contracts they will get and had, respectively. But, I think Berry is the victim of his own hubris, thinking he can replace them and fill holes in one offseason.
No, not acting like Haslam is cheap. We are flat out telling you he’s assigning value to position to fit within the cap. He’s a useless nerd. It’s all about spreadsheets. Look for a bunch of high SPARQ score drafted players with no tape evaluation at all
Freedom!!!
Kirksey would have been gone regardless of who the GM was. He misses way too much playing time to be reliable.
I would expect the Browns to sign 2 LBs in free agency and draft one.
No team can fill every hole every year. You prioritize needs and do what you can.
If Kirksey had not had so many missed games I would be upset. He played in 7 games in 2018 and only 2 last year.
I think the 7.5 million that they saved on the cap can be used to sign a more reliable linebacker.Kirksey would have been gone regardless of who the GM was. He misses way too much playing time to be reliable.
I would expect the Browns to sign 2 LBs in free agency and draft one.
No team can fill every hole every year. You prioritize needs and do what you can.
If Kirksey had not had so many missed games I would be upset. He played in 7 games in 2018 and only 2 last year.
I think the 7.5 million that they saved on the cap can be used to sign a more reliable linebacker.This is the only justification I’ve seen for this move. It’s true the last two years he’s been hurt, but that is after he played the first 71 games of his career. I think his injury history is a little overblown.
But, none of that applies to the NFL.
I think you’re failing to understand that I completely agree with you.
“Moneyball” is simply a best-bang-for-the-buck system based on statistical analysis. And I agree with you 100% that it doesn’t apply to the NFL.
My point is that we’re doing it anyway.
Do you see my frustration with that?
Further…….Moneyball produced a FLOOD of, ahem, “new math” into the game of baseball. The proverbial “paralysis by analysis”. I already had a hard time as it was accepting stats like WAR as a be-all end-all basis for evaluation, now it’s grown into people taking serious stock into “spin rates” on pitchers pitchers and “exit velocities” on a batters hit balls to determine if they really are performing up to the best of their abilities. It’s honestly insane and quite nauseating.
Can you imagine Casey Stengal, Tommy Lasorda, Tony Larussa, Bobby Cox or Sparky Anderson managing their teams and making decisions based on a pitchers “spin rate” vs. lefties, a shortstops “exit velocity” on hit balls against the shift, or who to play when based on their WAR?
Are you fucking kidding me? You’d get your ass kicked. literally. Not in a game, they’d just kick your ass and run you out of the dugout with that kind of shit.
Not to mention……”moneyball” still hasn’t won shit. How many Championships did it bring to Oakland? How many rings has Paul Depodesta’s way of evaluating a baseball team produce? Did Joe Maddon breakout a spreadsheet in 2016 to beat the Indians or did he trust his gut and play Kyle Schwarber who hadn’t played all season and was still a young nobody? You think Bruce Bochy or Joe Girardi won titles with advanced metrics? Are you serious lol? These are baseball lifers that know the game up and down.
Facts, numbers, analysis……data…….all that stuff has it’s place. It’s useful. It’s helpful. It gives better understanding and it gives an advantage if used properly.
But in no way is it, nor should it be, used to base an entire philosophy on how a team should be run, managed, scouted, and produced. Not in baseball and holy motherfuck-are-you-kidding-me not in football.
But, and I stress buuuuuuuuuuuuuut, that, is what, we’re doing.
If you can’t see the problem, I can’t steer you to it.
And that’s exactly why I bristle at the use of the term Moneyball, as it invokes a complete misunderstanding. It is not a “best-bang-for-your-buck system.” It is just the use of Sabermetrics in Oakland. Oakland simply employed Sabermetrics when no other teams were, which gave them a competitive advantage. They ended up signing cheaper players and fielding a lower salary roster because they were constrained by amount of money available, BUT that doesn’t mean their Sabermetrics evaluations considered those players the best in the game, they’re just the guys who were available.
And I say it’s not applicable because the subtitle of Moneyball is “the art of winning an unfair game.” Football is not an unfair game because of the salary cap and revenue sharing.
As for your question “what has Moneyball ever won?” … Oakland and Paul Depodestas use of Sabermetrics was based into the book written by Bill James. After the “Moneyball” season, the Boston Red Sox hired Bill James to bring Sabermetrics to the Sox in hopes of breaking an almost 90 year curse. James just recently retired from the Red Sox, but in his time there, they won 4 World Series Titles, after not winning one from 1918 to 2003. So yes, it has won, a lot.
But, nobody realizes that was Moneyball, because they had expensive players and top of the league salaries.
My favorite line from that article:
“right now; all the Browns actions so far suggest the Browns are back to thinking that saving cap space and waiting until whenever to start competing is the soul of data-driven wisdom.”
Fuck me.
The Browns have REPEATEDLY said analytics is just one more tool in the tool box and not the be all end all but some people refuse to accept that and make their own decisions based completely on a misunderstanding of how it will be used.
If its 4th and 1 from the 27, analytics will tell you throwing a ball into the end zone doesn’t have much of a rate of success as maybe a screen pass or even some type of run.
Yes, most of us (not Kitchens) can figure that without using analytics.
The Browns have REPEATEDLY said analytics is just one more tool in the tool box and not the be all end all but some people refuse to accept that
The guy who was behind 1-31, because of analytics, is once again completely in charge.
That, is why I refuse to accept that.
I would also like to state, officially and for the record, that I really, really hope I’m wrong.
I’ve never wanted to be more wrong in my life. I can’t stand the thought of being right on this. It makes me physically ill just to think about.
I hope I’m ill informed, misunderstanding, going full-Soup and just being completely ridiculous. I really really hope so.
Was Berry in charge when the Browns were 1-31. Did Berry want Hue Jackson as head coach. What say did he actually have in the decisions on players drafted?
The only one I know for sure is he didn’t want Hue Jackson as head coach.
I will not blame him for the Browns dismal record when I don’t know exactly what voice he had.
The thing that will determine what I think of him is how the Browns are now, not what happened a few years ago. If that’s the case, then almost every coach and GM in football sucks because the vast majority have had failures in their career.1-31 isn’t good enough to refer to it as a failure. It’s a horrific and unacceptable record. Here comes another disaster of analytics
Freedom!!!
Was Berry in charge when the Browns were 1-31
I’m curious as to why you think Berry is in charge now?
2 years $16 million with the Packers.
Interestingly, he would have made $16 million over this year and next with the Browns.
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