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Pretty much what the title says…thoughts?
Joe Haden Trade Rumors: Browns 'Aggressively' Trying to Move CB
Great guy, great citizen off the field. Fantastic leader.
Will never contribute enough this year to justify his contract.
He’s on the downward slope of his career and we know what this team thinks about old vets. It depends what we get in trade.
As mentioned, the key here is health. If he’s healthy, he’s a top 5 corner. Admittedly that’s a big “if” as Joe has struggled mightily with a broad range of injuries the last few seasons but that’s the nature of playing a gladiator sport where grown men are plowing into each other with freakish athleticism. He appears to be healthy this year though, and his play is almost invaluable to a young defense. I can only assume that the trade would involve a draft pick, and this is one of those cases where valuing the potential of a future player over a known commodity seems counterproductive. Haden is entering his prime. At 28 he’s gonna have about 4 more years of elite play left in him. Who knows where the Browns will be in 2 or 3 years from now. His services are needed, and badly.
What are we going to get for him? The injury history is going to determine that. If he’s healthy, nothing below a 1st rounder. But again, if he’s healthy he’s an elite player so why trade him? Who cares about his contract at that point he’s a Pro-Bowl player and those caliber f players get paid. If he’s struggling again with health, what’s another team going to give you for him? A 4th rounder, maybe? Is that worth it? Is it really just a salary dump? We still have oodles and oodles of cap space with his contract so I don’t see the need.
So far this year he’s been healthy. If he returns to being the Haden of 3-4 years ago, why the hell would you trade that? Again he’s 28, not 32. I think that Peppers is going to add a wonderful element to the secondary, and pairing him with a healthy Haden is going to help out the pass rush immensely.
I think it’s a stupid move.
It depends what we get in trade.
Or whom. We need receiver help,and I don’t doubt that’s our goal here. Maybe even both that and a draft pick…?
Shooter, I mostly agree with you. And I know that it’s preseason, buuuuuut…I really haven’t seen anything from him that indicates that he’s back to form, at least from a physical standpoint. From the Giants game, one play that comes to mind is when Peppers laid the wood on Shepard and he misses the pass. The only reason it was thrown there? Haden got burned at the line.
I love the dude to death, and I’m personally against a trade…but the coaches get a closer look than we ever will, and see things that we don’t. So, I could see a trade playing out.
I guess one things that bugs me is all the people making the argument “he gets burned a lot”.
For starters, I disagree. I think it’s a case where when he does get burnt it really stands out and people are quick to jump on the “oh he got beat again” train. Corners get beat in the NFL every weekend. Richard Sherman gets beaten. Patrick Peterson gets beaten. Josh Norman gets beaten. And yes, Haden gets beaten too. It happens, and it tends to overshadow all of the good that was done in a game. It’s similar to a left tackle who owns a DE the entire game but on a game-winning drive gives up a sack and that 1 play wipes out an entire dominating performance.
And again, injuries have played a major part in it as well. He was playing last year with two torn groins. Good luck covering anyone in that condition. The year before it was I believe hamstring and concussion issues.
When he’s healthy, he gets beat, but not anywhere near as much as people “remember”, it’s more a case of revisionist history.
Also, our secondary sucks and has for a while. There’s many instances where Haden will let a guy get by him thinking there’s help coming from the safety and…….it never gets there because the safeties suck and people are all “oh Haden got roasted again” when that’s not nearly the case.
Alright, this isn’t meant to throw shade or even to prove a point, especially when I haven’t heard his name get called much this season (presumably a good thing). A good view of the play is at the :52 mark. I honestly don’t know if this has been going on throughout the preseason, but he definitely was beaten here (though it was Marshall that did it, not Shepard).
Again, I agree with you Shooter, I don’t want to see him go. Play I was talking about is at :52.
At most he’s worth a 4th round pick. Oft injured. Only really a couple good years. Antonio Brown owns him. He’s not as special as Browns fans want to believe. Not surprised they’d try and trade him.
Freedom!!!
At most he’s worth a 4th round pick. Oft injured. Only really a couple good years. Antonio Brown owns him. He’s not as special as Browns fans want to believe. Not surprised they’d try and trade him.
I expected you to say this very thing…except for the draft pick. Pegged you as a 3rd lol.
I’m with Shooter- besides last season, nobody tried throwing in this dude’s direction very often, and when they did he often made a play. While I agree he’s injured more often than I would like, I would at least like to see him this season in this current defense and see how he does. Besides, if there’s a thin spot in our secondary, it’s there.
And if it says anything, he WAS at practice today, so there’s that.
Personally, I think we (need to) keep Joe.
Antonio Brown owns him
He’s struggled a bit against Brown, but name a corner who hasnt? The guy is a machine and the best reciever in the NFL.
I also recall Haden repeatedly shutting down A.J. Green. nd I’m talking to the point of being a complete non-factor. One game he held him nearly catchless.
You don’t just up and forget how to do that or lose the ability to do it at 28. At 33, sure, but not at 28.
He does own Green. That said, 2013-2014 we’re his two good years. He’s coming off multiple groin surgeries. He didn’t forget, he lost his step. He’s worth no more than a 4th off those injuries. He’s still the best corner on our team, but our team lacks good corners. And even though he’s our best, it doesn’t raise his value outside the organization. If he were coming off 2 pro bowl years it’s be a different story.
Freedom!!!
QB’s aren’t afraid of Haden. They have no fear of throwing at him. He’s not elite when healthy, he’s very good. I’d put him maybe in the top 15 when healthy but again, how often is he healthy? The only time he’s ever played every game in a season was his rookie year. If you get him for anything more than 12 games this season you’re pretty happy. What does that say if you’re a playoff team and the guy has only finished a season once? Are you going to want him, knowing that he probably won’t be healthy for your playoff run?
Nobody is absorbing that contract at this point in the game. Nobody. I like Joe, but realistically we wouldn’t be able to get close to value back for him right now. He’s probably at the lowest point in his career so far. Even if we wanted to get rid of him, we’d be much better served hoping he has a bounce back year.
The only time he’s ever played every game in a season was his rookie year. If you get him for anything more than 12 games this season you’re pretty happy.
Had a big to do with a guy today on Munch Bishops FB page who was going down this very road.
While technically true, I think the numbers are quite skewed and his injury struggles the last 2 seasons have really painted a rather unfair picture of reality. Hear me out.
Haden has been a Brown for 7 seasons. Haden has played in a total of 90 out o 112 games in that time. That means he’s missed a total of 22 games in 7 years. 4 of those however were due to his adderall suspension. So really, he’s missed 18 games in 7 years (due to injury). Slightly over 2 per year on average over his career. That’s not really terrible by any stretch considering the game that they play. Sure, you’d like everyone to be a Joe Thomas and never miss a snap, but it’s football, and people get hurt.
I think the fact that 14 of those missed games have come in the last 2 years are what give people pause and create this false narrative of “oh he’s always injured”.
He’s not really, nor has he ever been. I think it kind of shows a completely different narrative as far as his “health” goes. In 2015 he was battling a hamstring issue, an incredibly common injury with any athlete in any sport, and the dreaded lingering concussion. We all know about concussions in football. Last year he gutted out 13 games on 2 torn groins, very clearly affecting his ability.
To me it changes the discussion form “injury prone” to “struggled with injuries the last two years”.
Admittedly, in the 18 games over the last two years that Haden has played in he’s been abysmal. But when you’re battling hamstring, concussion, and torn groin injuries, I mean yeah, it’s going to greatly affect your ability to play the way that you can.
I’m not saying the guy is all world or a future Hall of Famer, but if he can get back to being full strength, stay healthy, and return to the form that was in 2013 and 2014 for the next 3-4 years, you’d be thrilled with that as an organization because that’s Pro-bowl caliber play.
And yes I understand it’s a big “if”, but again my point is that he’s not “injury prone”, he’s just “been injured” and there’s a difference. “Injury prone” guys are guys who tear an ACL, then a hamstring, then have a shoulder stinger, then get a hig ankle sprain, then break a wrist, then then have a knee, bruise an elbow, hurt another knee, then break a finger, then get concussed, hurt the other hamstring and on and on and on week after week year after year after year and never really get going with anything because they’re always on the IR, or DL, or whatever the hell it is in the NBA that causes them to never really be on the field consistently.
That’s just not the case with Haden. In his first 5 yeas in the league he missed a total of 4 games due to injury. For football you take that happily and question nothing.
Is he in danger of going down that “injury prone” road? Yes, yes he is. It’s the NFL, he’s got 7 years of wear and tear on his body, it’s possible. Is he there yet though? I don’t think it’s fair to say yes yet. If he’s beat up and plays like shit this year, then yeah you can make that argument and it’ll hold a lot of water. I’d even be inclined to agree.
But if he rebounds, then I don’t see the problem. With keeping him OR paying him, because the juice is still worth the squeeze.
What could one more year hurt, other than trade value? This isn’t exactly going to be a Super Bowl-caliber team this season, and it’s also a position we’re pretty thin at.
Also, this is a story that has probably been blown way out of proportion…the conversations likely went something like:
Sashi- Hey there, [insert GM name here], got a question for you. What would you give me for Haden? [listens to offer] OK then, well, we think he’s worth more than that but I’ll be here if you have a better offer, thanks. And give [insert GM’s wife’s name here] my regards, because she bakes a mean pie.
This call was probably made a few times, one or two folks overheard conversations, and called the press to leak that we are “aggressively” trying to move him. Chances are good that he isn’t going anywhere, at least this season.
IF Haden can stay on the field all season and IF he can get back to how good he was 4 years ago then he’ll be a really good player. I agree with that statement. If Deshone Kizer plays as well as Tom Brady we’ll make it deep into the playoffs. I also agree with that statement.
Well shit. You beat me to it. You could delete mine or keep it around to make it seem like there’s more topics than there really are in the forum.
Still…this sucks. This is the worst possible scenario. Ugh.
Well shit. You beat me to it. You could delete mine or keep it around to make it seem like there’s more topics than there really are in the forum.
I’m not really concerned about trying to grow BFT so I don’t care about the number of topics. I just want a fun sandbox for us all to play in and throw sand at each other.
Haden getting cut is the worst outcome. This one stings a bit because he’s been such a positive member of the team and the community. He’s just way too expensive. We’ll probably never know whether they asked him to take a pay cut and he refused.
Who cares. We cut burnt toast from the last 2 years. At the this point in his overrated career he’s a dime back. League minimum? Sure.
Freedom!!!
Funny you say that…Browns supposedly asked him to take a pay cut, which he declined. So there’s more to it than it being a one-sided affair.
League minimum my ass…dude deserves more than that. Quit viewing shit in terms of just numbers, Soup.
I flat out don’t understand this. Nfl.com says the saints, colts, cowboys and steelers have expressed interest in Haden. If he goes to the steelers…
WTF is the point of having $15 billion in salary cap space??? Isn’t the goal to win games?? That’s done with players, not salary cap space.
Meanwhile all 14 f’in picks made the roster last year. Is this to make room for this years 7th rounders? To me, it reeks of arrogance from the Harvard crew wanting their guys, and not holdovers.
Browns either full retard or he must not be able to pass a physical. I am guessing after 2 off-season groin surgeries, he will retire.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Dawg e Dawg… I think give this a second to settle…. Dude played hurt the entire year last year and had two off-season surgeries… He is a class act and I don’t think they would just have let him go….
Lets see if he can even make a physical let alone a lineup. If he does go interdivision and tears us up, I may go root for Buffalo.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Funny you say that…Browns supposedly asked him to take a pay cut, which he declined. So there’s more to it than it being a one-sided affair.
League minimum my ass…dude deserves more than that. Quit viewing shit in terms of just numbers, Soup.He’s a number. An overrated one. Why be upset over it?
Freedom!!!
I flat out don’t understand this. Nfl.com says the saints, colts, cowboys and steelers have expressed interest in Haden. If he goes to the steelers…
WTF is the point of having $15 billion in salary cap space??? Isn’t the goal to win games?? That’s done with players, not salary cap space.
Meanwhile all 14 f’in picks made the roster last year. Is this to make room for this years 7th rounders? To me, it reeks of arrogance from the Harvard crew wanting their guys, and not holdovers.How good has our defense been since 2010? We can suck without him as well as we sucked with him. He’s coming off 2 groin surgeries. For him to get signed he’ll need to pass those teams physicals.
Freedom!!!
Soups hate for Joe Haden has been known since day 1. He will never acknowledge how elite he was in the NFL even though the rest of the NFL does. This is the difference between an NFL scout and the equivalent of a used car sales man.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Best of luck to you Joe. Injuries derailed your career but you were always class on and off the field. That’s rare these days.
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
Soups hate for Joe Haden has been known since day 1.
Truth.
This was a stupid, stupid move the Browns will regret.
The Steelers secondary is woefully thin. Watch where Haden ends up.
Soups hate for Joe Haden has been known since day 1.
Truth.
This was a stupid, stupid move the Browns will regret.
The Steelers secondary is woefully thin. Watch where Haden ends up.What has Haden done the past two years that makes this such a stupid move in your eyes?
Freedom!!!
From pro football focus about 2016.
6. JOE HADEN, CB, CLEVELAND BROWNS
2016 overall grade: 56.3 (87th among cornerbacks)Once a truly dominant cover corner, Joe Haden’s play has declined since 2014, while injuries have nagged him from any sort of consistency. He allowed six touchdowns and a 97.7 QB rating in coverage. Struggling heavily on go routes, most of his big plays occurred when playing press on a receiver and not having the speed to recover once beaten. Something that used to be a strength earlier in his career, his tackling also was subpar; he missed nine tackles and ranked 103rd among CBs in tackling efficiency.
Oh gee. Such a mistake to cut.
Freedom!!!
He’s been playing, so I’d say he can pass a physical.
I’m not gonna dignify the “last two years comment” with an answer. With that logic you can say the Texans should cut JJ Eatt. What did he do for them last year?
He’s been playing, so I’d say he can pass a physical.
I’m not gonna dignify the “last two years comment” with an answer. With that logic you can say the Texans should cut JJ Eatt. What did he do for them last year?So right. Ranking #87 in coverage among corners and 103rd in tackle efficiency. Triple his salary! Shit, at least QB rating wasn’t 100 against him!
Dude sucked the last few years. Move on already
Freedom!!!
His play has declined even when healthy. I’m not saying declined to the point where he’s not a good player, but declined to the point that he’s not worth $10m per year. Ergo he gets cut. Like I said this one stings but I understand it.
I’m not going to sit here and have a stupid, pointless argument about the value of a healthy Joe Haden. It’s a known factor what that value is. I also explained my stance, in great detail, how I felt about his injures the last 2 years earlier in this very thread, so I’m not gonna skip the record.
Haden is going to be wearing the black and gold by the end of the day, and it’s a move that is going to haunt the Browns.
I have been in Sashi and company’s corner on nearly every move they have made thus far, but the calculator club fucked up on this one and it’s going to cost them. I cannot fathom a worse outcome for the Browns than a healthy, return-to-form Joe Haden playing for the fucking Steelers for the next 3-4 years.
To shooters point, if he goes to a rival he will own any receiver we have in the lineup. Guarantee that period.
I don’t mind the browns justifying pay verse play…. But the game plan just doesn’t seem that great with 50 mil in cap space.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
What has he done lately?
Been badly injured.
He’s healthy now.
Continue……..Really? So you’re saying he regained his speed? Odd how the Browns missed that part…
Once you lose make up speed as a corner who biggest attribute is speed – it’s done.
Freedom!!!
With that logic you can say the Texans should cut JJ Eatt. What did he do for them last year?
You can’t use common sense, logic, and simple basic reason when talking to Soup. He only speaks outrageous, knee-jerk overreaction. He’s like a reverse Chuck Norris, he can connect two dots when there’s only 1. I’d say it was hyperbole, but his statements are to be taken literally.
Really? So you’re saying he regained his speed?
Really, you know he lost it?
Yes. Haven’t you watched him play?
Freedom!!!
Just overheard Haden is meeting the Steelers in Charlotte to sign a deal. I guess we will know in 30 minutes
Freedom!!!
Neither shooter or soup have a clue how he really is. He had 2 surgeries off season. None of us have a clue if it affected him last year. I would guess yes. I still think he is in the top 90% with a bad year last year on a REALLY BAD FUCKING TEAM.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Soup if you’re right about Haden then you should be thrilled that the Steelers would sign him.
Just have Coleman run go routes on him all day long.
Freedom!!!
Soup if you’re right about Haden then you should be thrilled that the Steelers would sign him.
Just have Coleman run go routes on him all day long.
Oh, you mean the “weak-bodied bust”? That guy?
$7 mill guarantee year 1. Reality? It’s a 1 year RG3 style deal
$7 mill guarantee year 1. Reality? It’s a 1 year RG3 style deal
The reality is the Browns got worse and as a direct result the steelers got better, a week and half before we play them.
$7 mill guarantee year 1. Reality? It’s a 1 year RG3 style deal
The reality is the Browns got worse and as a direct result the steelers got better, a week and half before we play them.
So the Steelers got better with the 87th rated cover DB in the NFL? And our pass D will be worse? So we’ll finish 32?
Freedom!!!
So the Steelers got better with the 87th rated cover DB in the NFL? And our pass D will be worse? So we’ll finish 32?
We cut the CB listed as number 1 on our depth chart for the last half-dozen years, and the Steelers added said CB and will almost certainly list him as number 1 on their depth chart. So, yes, we got worse and they got better.
If you think he’s so terrible, and they were so smart to cut him, explain the depth chart. I’ll wait. They think he’s garbage but they listed him as better than their other CBs? Doesn’t make sense does it?
We were the worst team in the league last year by far. If anyone expects Haden to play well they are fucking morons.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
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