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I must say I’m absolutely dumbfounded right now that people are doubting this. OVerall in 3 1/4 games:
80 for 122 for 865 yards. 65.6% completion 7.1 YPA 4 TDs and 1 int with a 93.8 QB rating.
These are the numbers of a 3rd round pick taken “way too early” and forced to play when he was supposed to sit for an entire year.
Here’s the guy the NFL rips on us for passing on at #2 in Carson Wentz (5 games of stats)
102 for 157 for 1186 yards 65% completion and 7.6 YPA 7 TDs and 1 int and a 99.9 rating
In an extra 1 3/4 games he’s thrown 3 more TDs.
Is Kessler 0-3? Yes (I’m not hanging a 2 series loss on him against NE. Be real. Charlie Whitehurst who was signed a week earlier was forced to play). Hanging wins and losses on a QB, quite frankly, is pretty stupid when you need to look at situations. Look at Carson Wentz. The defense allowed 9 PPG through the first 3 games. YEt everyone credited him with the wins. The last 2 games they’ve given up 24 and 27 points in losses. Hell, yesterday the guy completed 50% of his passes and his defense and ST accounted for 14 pints in TDs. Yet he’s still the darling of the NFL because he’s big and has a cannon for an arm.
OF that 0-3 did he hurt the kicker in the first game causing a last second – no practice kicker to be signed at a position that’s all based on timing? No he didn’t. We dominated the entire game and lost due to missing 3 FGs. Now imagine his record if we let up 10, 14 and 3 points as a defense in his 3 full games. He’d be 3-0. Get the point?
YEsterday he was beaten senseless. We have the worst center and worst right tackle in the NFL – yet the guy completed 63% of his passes for 336 yards and 2 TDs with no ints. All while getting sacked 6 times with 11 hurries. That’s fucking impressive. Shooter wants a “wow” factor. That’s a “wow” factor.
One of those sacks was on a max protect to set up a double move for Pryor – Kessler pumped and then got sacked because Pasztor got flat out run over while Erving was pushed back in his face. Think about that for a minute. He didn’t have enough time to throw the ball with 8 guys blocking for him. That’s how terrible our center and right tackle are.
I’m not sure what you guys are looking for in a starting QB other than flash and a “name.”
We’ve got the QB. We’ve got the head coach. Now we need a center, right tackle and at least 1 good starting safety.
If HAslam isn’t stupid and let’s this go we will be vying for a Super Bowl in 2019. MArk my words. As an FYI – the last time I said this about a team was the Cleveland Indians when they lost 105 games. I watched what they had in Triple A (Thome was my favorite player while he was still in triple A). I predicted they’d be in the series in 4 years – my brother will vouch for me – 4 years later they were in the series.
We’ve got the beginning of one hell of a team. LEt this progress. We finally got the QB – be happy about it – quit trying to find a fault in a 3rd round guy everyone else missed on. Imagine if this kid had the best o-line in the NFL like Dak PRescott has.
Freedom!!!
I’m not ready to anoint anyone just yet. He’s faced mediocre defenses who were completely stacking against the run. Still what we have seen is encouraging. He’s had the poise we want and has made intelligent decisions with the ball. He doesn’t take unnecessary sacks or risks with the ball but trusts his receivers enough to throw to them when they’re single covered. He seems to throw better on the run which is good because behind our line he’ll always be on the run.
He’s got potential to be a good QB for us, if he doesn’t get killed this year.
Pretty much ditto to what Ice said, not ready to anoint him.
I’ll put it this way: if the draft were tomorrow, and we had to #1 pick, I’m not going to pass on a guy we feel can be a franchise qb just because we have Cody Kessler on the team. Being in position to grab a franchise qb prospect is too rare to pass on, unless you know you’ve got one already.
Now, on the flip side, I also wouldn’t pick a QB just because we’re at the top of the draft. If it’s looking like Jamarcus/Brady or a EJ/Geno type draft, we can roll with Kessler and not waste a pick. And if we do pick a QB, he won’t be anointed. He’ll have to beat out Kessler to earn the startin job.
I like Kessler, and at very worst I think he can be a solid backup. But honestly, from what I’ve seen so far, he seems to me like he’s going to have that Kyle Orton/Brian Hoyer/Ryan Fitzpatrick type of career. Just good enough to start, but the team will always be looking for his replacement.
Again, just my thoughts today. He’s got the rest of the season to prove otherwise.
Dawg E Dawg brings up an interesting and completely possible scenario. The Browns have the 1st overall pick in the draft (very likely), and there is a possible franchise caliber QB at the top (likely). What do we do? If Kessler keeps playing at this level through the rest of the year do we grab the new guy and then trade Kessler for as much as we can get?
The Chargers had a similar scenario and released Brees, drafting Rivers. It didn’t work out for them; Brees has a ring and Rivers does not. Brees was coming off injury IIRC and had been decent but not great for a couple seasons. We would be in position to keep both QB’s on our roster though because Kessler is on a nice 3rd round pick contract for many more years.
Those stats are far from similar. 4 TDs and 3 picks. 2 games under 60% completion and only 1 rating above 80. On top of that – highly doubtful the YPA is near 7 YPA
Freedom!!!
Total yards and YPA are the main indicators of QB success IMO. I did a statistical comparison back in the Derek Anderson days of all NFL QB’s, and those two stats best correlated with the best QB’s. I have no idea whose stats @dude posted, but their average yards per game is absolutely terrible. Kessler’s had 3 real games and his average yards/game is about 100 yards higher than the guy you posted.
I now believe I know who it is and they are nothing a like at QB. I only say that because I’m 99% sure I was at the Christmas Eve blow out.
Freedom!!!
Total yards and YPA are the main indicators of QB success IMO. I did a statistical comparison back in the Derek Anderson days of all NFL QB’s, and those two stats best correlated with the best QB’s. I have no idea whose stats @dude posted, but their average yards per game is absolutely terrible. Kessler’s had 3 real games and his average yards/game is about 100 yards higher than the guy you posted.
I may be trolling a little bit today. Perhaps the last qb we drafted in the 3rd round….
Hue Jackson is a loser.
I always enjoyed a nice @dude trolling, especially when was the target. I could just imagine Tree rage-typing then going back and editing his posts 20 minutes later. You could tell when he got really upset because he’d grace us with a 2000 word essay that probably took him an hour with multiple revisions. And then none of us would comment on it, which is probably the best way for us to piss him off. Can you imagine how upset he got as his amazing gift to humanity and football fell further and further down the topics list?
I’ll put it this way: if the draft were tomorrow, and we had to #1 pick, I’m not going to pass on a guy we feel can be a franchise qb just because we have Cody Kessler on the team.
This right here. This sums it up for me perfectly.
I’ll put it this way: if the draft were tomorrow, and we had to #1 pick, I’m not going to pass on a guy we feel can be a franchise qb just because we have Cody Kessler on the team.
This right here. This sums it up for me perfectly.
If Kessler finishes how he started we’d be dumb to do that. Off what he’s done in 4 games you do, but in 14 it’s a different story
Freedom!!!
I hope Kessler does continue the way he started. I hope we are debating whether the guy who was an afterthought 3rd round pick is good enough to keep us from grabbing the best QB with the 1st overall pick. What a great problem to have.
He’s a dink and dunk WCO style QB that has a HC that wants a vertical offence.. not exactly a good pairing. He looks like a Colt McCoy, Charlie Frye game manager whose ceiling is some where around Chad Pennington
IMO QB’s the Browns MIGHT be interested in are: Kizer of ND, Kelly of Ole Miss, Trubisky of NC and Rush of CMU.
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
But who is that guy?
Kizer from Notre Dame – he SUCKS. He’s beyond terrible. 1 good game to open the season followed by several awful games full of interceptions (5TDs and 0 picks in game 1, 9 TDs and 7 picks combined thereafter – he’s typical Notre Dame worthless trash).
Watson – no thanks. Another running QB who is struggling?
The most intrguing is Chad Kelly – except that he won’t be coming out.
Freedom!!!
Chad Kelly is a Senior, how is he not coming out?
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0Chad Kelly is a Senior, how is he not coming out?
Ask his boyfriend
My apologies, I thoughthink he was a sophomore for some reason
Freedom!!!
But who is that guy?
No idea.
Kizer from Notre Dame
Sweet Jesus……no.
Watson – no thanks. Another running QB
Oh completely agreed. (And lemme tell you, I’m down here now. I see this freaking kid everywhere, and hear about him constantly on sportstalk. No. No no no. I’d pass on him until the 6th round. No chance whatsoever at being and NFL QB. None. Pass).
So honestly I don’t know. We’re what, week 7 in college? I don’t see anyone blowing me away so far, and this is usually the time of year when you start seeing and hearing the “oh oh oh that guy! He’s amazing!!” talk.
I’ll be honest I don’t have an answer to your question. I can’t even make a passionate argument. But really, that’s just kind of like winning by default isn’t it?
I still don’t see Kessler as being in the category of “that guy”. Again, I’m not knocking him, or at least not trying to, but there’s just nothing exciting about him. At best my attitude is “well he’s not terrible, so that’s cool”.
It’s just……that arm though. The Chad Pennington/Ryan Fitzpatrick comparisons are real, and valid. Christ Fitpatrick went to Havard. Being smart and has it’s advantages, so does accuracy, but knowing what-to-do with the football eventually gives way to what-CAN-you-do with the football. The defensive coaches and players get paid millions too, and if you get good enough, eventually they take away everything you have and dare you. “Beat us like this”.
That, is what separates the good ones from the Greats. Drew Brees, Eli manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisburger, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford…….guys like that can look at a defensive coach and a set of defensive players, hear that “beat us like this” challenge, and say “okay” and go out and do it. That’s what separates them.
Kessler is never going to be able to do that. He might be able to succeed for a while, but it’s going to go the way of everyone else in his skillset before him. Look at Fitzpatrick this year. He had a monster year last year. He was amazing. Now, after and with that success, he made a bunch of people stand up and pay attention. He made defenses, both coaches and players, plan for him. And when they did, when they laid out the orders and the players executed them and they gave the “beat us like this” mandate………He’s being replaced by Geno Smith. It speaks volumes.
That doesn’t get anyone anywhere in the long run, we know how it ends. You just can’t have that.
I think he’s a good QB. I think he’s solid, fundamental, I think he can play, and I think he can win. I also think no one is paying any attention to him right now, and that that has a lot to do with his success.
I also think that if the coaches and players in the League are forced to actually take time to key in on him……..they’ll be able to make him look awful. And honestly, they’ll be able to it rather easily. He can be beat, and he can be beat rather easily. The only reason he’s not is because he’s already getting beat when they aren’t even trying to beat him.
I’d bet 1 of my kids that if he takes us to 11-5 next year……the year after we’d win 3 games. Cause they’d figure it out, and he doesn’t have what’s needed to counter them, and his career would end.
That’s not “franchise QB” to me. And I’m being honest, that’s what I see.
I respect your views and you could be right – however, to say they aren’t paying attention to him is false. Teams are paying attention and gameplanning against him. Tenn blitzed a ton o Lebeau disguises – Kessler just made the right decisions. Fitzpatrick is not reading D’s and is making TERRIBLE decisions. That’s the difference.
As for arm strength here’s various reports:
1. Arm strength. If Carson Wentz is at the high end of the arm-talent spectrum this season, Kessler is towards the other end of the scale. He doesn’t have an outright noodle, but his game needs to be more about anticipation and smarts than arm strength.
2. Adequate arm strength.
3. A big question mark surrounding Kessler is his arm strength. It was sufficient for him at USC to challenge small throwing windows in the shorter areas of the field, but when facing tougher throwing lanes in the intermediate- and deep-passing game, his arm lacks the pure velocity to challenge those situations and enjoy success. Even with years of film available, it is tough to point to a play where he drives the football into a tough throwing window with velocity on a throw greater than 20 yards. He will need to find a way to add velocity to his passes during his transition or, as is more likely, be utilized in an offense that thrives on the shorter passing game with the occasional deep shot, which he can deliver with touch and accuracy.
The splits still haven’t updated with the most recent game yet. As of now he’s 2 for 5 on throws 21+ yards. Wentz (without the most recent game) is 3 for 10. Wentz has played 4 full games (on these stats since they aren’t updated yet) and Kessler has 3 1/4 games on these stats.
The people who aren’t paying attention to him are ignoring his success because they all ripped Hue Jackson for the pick because according to them he wasn’t worth it. He should’ve been a late round guy and not a 3rd round guy. That’s why no talking heads are speaking about him.
But make no mistake about it – they aren’t ignoring film on him and aren’t just sitting back and letting him pick them apart. He’s just played smart. His arm strength isn’t going to wow anyone and how often are balls threaded past 20 yards? Wentz has thrown 10 in 4 games. That’s 2.5 throws per game. What’s more important – a wicked deep ball or getting chunks of yards and drives to score?
Freedom!!!
Okay – back to the arm:
Kessler is 3 for 9 on attempts travelling 21+ yards in the air
Wentz is 3 for 10 on attempts travelling 21+ yards in the air
Kessler has played in 3/14 games
Wentz has played in 5 games
Kessler throws downfield more than Wentz does and is just as successful.
Obviously Wentz has a far stronger arm. My point? Kessler’s arm is NFL quality. He can make all the throws. No, he has no cannon, but he has what’s needed to be an NFL starter. Let’s hope he keeps it up all year so we don’t need to waste a pick on a QB
Freedom!!!
velocity and distance are 2 different things
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
Oh, and at this current moment Wentz is 20 of his last 40 with 3 ints
At this current moment, Kessler thinks he is on Mars.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
I always enjoyed a nice @dude trolling, especially when was the target. I could just imagine Tree rage-typing then going back and editing his posts 20 minutes later. You could tell when he got really upset because he’d grace us with a 2000 word essay that probably took him an hour with multiple revisions. And then none of us would comment on it, which is probably the best way for us to piss him off. Can you imagine how upset he got as his amazing gift to humanity and football fell further and further down the topics list?
Man I miss those days. What did he call himself the Prostate examiner or something?
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Soup, I can’t point to a specific play, but I was definitely starting to come around today. For the first time, I actually thought Kessler could be a starter and not just a backup. BUT, then he got hurt.
I’m not gonna be too hard on him because every QB is getting killed by this oline, but at some point you have to be able to take an NFL hit and keep on truckin. The most important ability is still availability.
Update, Kessler is now rated higher than Wentz in rating. He’s also nearly 4 points higher in completion % with equal YPA at 7.1.
Record difference? Defense. In wins Philly allowed 10, 14, 3 and 10 points on the board. More than 14? Philly loses.
Freedom!!!
Another difference is that Kessler is succeeding in a traditional, pro-style offense. He’s making reads and adjustments.
Wentz is being sheltered in a super limited read-option hybrid which is closer to a NCAA offense…and it’s starting to catch up with the Eagles. One quick read and a dump off or run. If he cannot start operating a pro-style offense (by no means a knock against a rookie), their playoff mirage is about to vanish.
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