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A weak WR class? What film is everyone watching???
It’s important to remember that college success (or lack thereof) doesn’t always translate at the NFL Level. Those saying there is no WR in this draft probably also graded Demarius Thomas, Dez Bryant, Arrelious Benn and Golden Tate over Antonio Brown (and Jermaine Gresham over Rob Gronkowski).
There are some interesting WRs in this draft, starting with N’keal Harry (Arizona State), Kelvin Harmon (NC State), J.J. Arcega-Whiteside (Stanford) and A.J. Brown (Ole Miss) in the top 50 prospects alone. I really like some of those guys, and will do some player highlights on them as we get closer to the draft. But today, I’m calling my shot:
Meet Hakeem Butler of Iowa State.
Position: WR
Height: 6’6″
Weight: 225 lbs
NFL Comparison: AJ GreenThis king of the contested catch stands a towering 6’6″ tall and weighs in at 225 pounds. On just 51 receptions, Butler amassed 1,126 yards (22.1 yards avg per reception) in 12 games, showcasing the best “long stride” speed I have seen since Josh Gordon. And while Iowa State plays schools like Drake and South Dakota State, it was against schools like Oklahoma, West Virginia, Texas Tech, Kansas and Kansas State that Butler posted his +100 yard games (174, 107, 148, 164 and 144, respectively), including an impressive 3 game stretch that saw him record 15 receptions for 419 yards, 4 TDs (27.9 yards avg per reception). In fact, he led the nation in yards per catch in 2018.
A 2 star recruit coming out of High School, CBS currently has him listed as the 67th best player in the draft and he hasn’t declared for the NFL yet (though I’m hopeful he will despite his remaining year of eligibility). At the time of writing, no one has him rated as a first round talent. I believe that will change, and quickly, if he declares and attends the combine.
Built like a 5’9″ speedster (Travis Benjamin comes to mind) it’s easy to overlook just how big, strong and fast Butler is until you see him surrounded by teammates and defenders. In addition to his towering height, Butler is INCREDIBLY flexible, bending and twisting, showing amazing range and body control as he hauls in off target throws and breaks tackle after tackle.
Says NFL.com’s Dane Brugler:
“You love the size,” Brugler said. “You love the play strength. You love his ability to adjust to the football down the field. But in college, especially the Big 12, he can do that on those 50/50 balls, but in the NFL, when he’s facing NFL-level corners, those 50/50 balls are more like 20/80 balls.”Brugler said there’s also questions about Butler’s speed and his route-running. But he believes there is so much potential with Butler that the Iowa State star could land somewhere in the second or third round.
“He’s going to be a tough evaluation because he’s that big receiver with average speed and he’s going to be viewed probably where on the Day 2 (Rounds 2 and 3 of the draft) for a team looking for a big-play threat,” Brugler said. “The grades will be all over the map. I think some teams might even have him on Day 3. And some might have him on Day 2.”
I’m here to tell you that Butler is a Day 1 talent that would be an exceptional value on day 2 and an absolute steal on day 3. A 50/50 ball thrown in his direction is currently an 80/20, and in the NFL may drop to a true 50/50 (not a 20/80 as Brugler asserts). He’s the best parts of Vincent Jackson and Mike Evans, with the long stride speed of Josh Gordon. I don’t know what his timed 40 speed is, and I don’t care. In pads, this kid runs by defenders effortlessly and consistently. In the red zone, he high points the ball and uses his body to shield the ball. He does something very rare for big bodied receivers: he outplays the defender on almost every play, using a combination of effort and size.
But the measureables and the stats only tell part of the story. You see, Iowa State played 3 quarterbacks in 2018. Brock Purdy attempted 193 passes for 1935 yards and 16 TD, Zeb Noland attempted another 110 passes for 722 yards and 4 TD and Kyle Kempt attempted another 31 passes for 160 yards and no touchdowns. Of Iowa State’s 2817 passing yards and 20 TDs, Hakeem Butler accounted for 40% of the Cyclones passing yards and 45% of their passing TDs. The next closest receiver for Iowa State was Tarique Milton, who recorded 34 receptions (just 17 receptions less than Butler) for 417 yards (709 yards fewer than Butler) and 1 TD (8 TDs less than Butler). No one else on his team was as productive, and he was able to produce regardless of who was throwing him the ball (another reason I think the Gordon comparison holds up).
So ignore the reports that 2019 is a weak WR class. 2019 is stacked at WR (and I LOVE every single one of the receivers I listed at the start of this post). But for my money, I want to see Baker Mayfield benefit from seeing Hakeem Butler in Orange and Brown.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0There are some interesting WRs in this draft, starting with N’keal Harry (Arizona State), Kelvin Harmon (NC State), J.J. Arcega-Whiteside (Stanford) and A.J. Brown (Ole Miss) in the top 50 prospects alone.
See I have read that there a lot of 4.55 and 4.6 WR’s in this class and the lack of speed with size has this class cast in a negative light.
IE: I love me some David Sills V, guy lead the nation in TD catches last year but WVU was spreading the Ball around this year. Any way the guy knows how to find the openings of defenses and get it into the zone. Thing is he may be one of those 4.55-4.60 wr type
The more I read and watch (theres some very good film out there) this WR classes combine will be very imporant to confirm how fast they are and are not.
IE: Brian Robiskie’s college film looked good too. And the only seperation he was ever able to get in the NFL was a pink slip.
Oh and Butler moves a lot like a lighter David Njoku and or Terrell Pryor. Not a lot of wiggle long strider who is a strong guy. I am not sure how much acceleration this guy has ether as that long stride makes it difficult to tell.
Oh and Rob Base made my morning thanks for the way back button 😀
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
Did a lil diggin. And found this: Kid has yet to declare and has a history of drops (sigh)….and Todd McShay told him he’d likely get a day 2 grade from the NFL. For whats that worth.
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
There are some interesting WRs in this draft, starting with N’keal Harry (Arizona State), Kelvin Harmon (NC State), J.J. Arcega-Whiteside (Stanford) and A.J. Brown (Ole Miss) in the top 50 prospects alone.
See I have read that there a lot of 4.55 and 4.6 WR’s in this class and the lack of speed with size has this class cast in a negative light.
40 times are almost useless in determining if a receiver will get separation. Antonio brown ran a 4.56 and gets more separation than any other WR in the league.
When I was touting Kareem Hunt (please leave the recent women beating shit out of this convo) I was told he was too slow because his 40 was in the 4.5s. I said “look at the tape and tell me where he gets caught from behind. It doesn’t happen.”
Who was it, Stephen hill, ran a lighting fast 40 and then was nothing in the nfl? It’s not important.
For the record, Robiskies problem wasn’t his speed. It was that he couldn’t make a catch in traffic. 50/50 balls were 0/100 balls for him.
There are some interesting WRs in this draft, starting with N’keal Harry (Arizona State), Kelvin Harmon (NC State), J.J. Arcega-Whiteside (Stanford) and A.J. Brown (Ole Miss) in the top 50 prospects alone.
See I have read that there a lot of 4.55 and 4.6 WR’s in this class and the lack of speed with size has this class cast in a negative light.
40 times are almost useless in determining if a receiver will get separation. Antonio brown ran a 4.56 and gets more separation than any other WR in the league.
When I was touting Kareem Hunt (please leave the recent women beating shit out of this convo) I was told he was too slow because his 40 was in the 4.5s. I said “look at the tape and tell me where he gets caught from behind. It doesn’t happen.”
Who was it, Stephen hill, ran a lighting fast 40 and then was nothing in the nfl? It’s not important.
For the record, Robiskies problem wasn’t his speed. It was that he couldn’t make a catch in traffic. 50/50 balls were 0/100 balls for him.You are not wrong….. But like the sign says at Ceder Point on roller coasters You must be this tall to ride this ride. There are certain bench marks for measurables where if you don’t hit them the likelyhood of your success in the league is not likely.
See Wide Reciever Devon Cajuste at Stanford. He was a highly productive big bodied WR that ended up having to move inside to Tight End because he wasn’t fast enogh on the out side as a WR. Hakeem Butler Could be Terrel Pryor type WR or he could very well end up having to move inside.
I keep Using TP because their stride and body build to my eye are real simular.
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
You are not wrong….. But like the sign says at Ceder Point on roller coasters You must be this tall to ride this ride. There are certain bench marks for measurables where if you don’t hit them the likelyhood of your success in the league is not likely.
See Wide Reciever Devon Cajuste at Stanford. He was a highly productive big bodied WR that ended up having to move inside to Tight End because he wasn’t fast enogh on the out side as a WR. Hakeem Butler Could be Terrel Pryor type WR or he could very well end up having to move inside.
I keep Using TP because their stride and body build to my eye are real simular.True, but then again, Cajuste had a better 40 time than Larry Fitzgerald.
I’m not arguing that a WR has to be fast, they absolutely do. I’m just saying the 40 is a terrible measurement of how fast a football player is.
Only fly routes require the receiver to run in a straight line, everything else requires the receiver to stop and start, and/or change directions quickly. Furthermore, at no point in a game does any player squat down into a runners stance before the play starts.
Really, only film can give you a good idea of how fast a WR is. I’m really just splitting hairs on nomenclature, but that’s why I don’t like referring to receivers as “4.55 guys” because it’s a poor indication of how fast/quick they really are.
Oh the 40 by itself isn’t that useful. The 10 yard split is as the 3 cone and the shuttle drill as well. Same with the long jump and vertical jump. Theres even some analytics tools to plug them into to see if a potential draft pick falls with in what other successful guys have.
Is that a replacement for film. Nope
Personally I have always though of it is a 3 circle ven diagram with production, film and measurables leading you to the center for an overall grade.
http://www.combinatorics.org/files/Surveys/ds5/gifs/V3.gif
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Did a lil diggin. And found this: Kid has yet to declare and has a history of drops (sigh)….and Todd McShay told him he’d likely get a day 2 grade from the NFL. For whats that worth.
I hope you didn’t do too much digging. I stated that in the post…
A 2 star recruit coming out of High School, CBS currently has him listed as the 67th best player in the draft and he hasn’t declared for the NFL yet (though I’m hopeful he will despite his remaining year of eligibility).
I really think you missed the point of the post. While everything is open for discussion, this wasn’t debate. Like I explicitly stated, I’m calling my shot. Remember when I told you Patrick Mahomes was rated a third round prospect and I told you I thought he was going to be great based on what I saw on film? You gave me every scouting report under the Sun about his “awkward” throwing angles, bad footwork, coming from an Air Raid, etc. Even then, I didn’t refute those claims. They’re factual. What I stated was, in spite of those “flaws”, I felt like his skill set would translate to the NFL and he would dominate.
I’m saying the same thing about Hakeem Butler. Take a look at the highlight video I posted (for the record, you can easily find nearly every game he played in last season on YouTube). You say he doesn’t have “wiggle”. He doesn’t need it. He uses body balance and leverage to make up for it. Besides, how much wiggle do Julio Jones, Vincent Jackson, Mike Evans and Josh Gordon have? That said, look at how flexible he is at 0:12. See the separation he gets coming out of the break at 2:12?
And his drops? Not worried a bit. Watch the film. He’s getting his hands on balls no one else even sniffs. Does he drop some? Yep. It’s the truth. But…
Every receiver has drops. Look at Higgins last week. You go ahead and worry about those drops, I’m going to stay focused on that 22.1 yards per reception (because not every receiver has that).
Mel Kiper has Butler ranked 7th on his list of the top draft-eligle wide receivers. I’m not telling you the consensus #1 WR in the draft (if there is one this year) is going to be a good pro. I’m telling you, I think this kid, considered by most to be a second day pick, is extremely undervalued. I’m telling you I think his draft stock is going to rise heading into the draft. I’m telling you I think he’s going to be a very good pro. You’re going to have the opportunity to check me at every step along the way. Regurgitating his scouting reports (which I’ve already read) won’t change my opinion though. This isn’t my hot take, it’s my analysis. I’m telling you what I see when I watch the game film, and what I see doesn’t fit the narrative that I’m reading on the web.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0DawgStyle, thanks for the logical analysis and polite discussion. I appreciate that your arguments are backed up with facts and examples, and where you express your opinion, you have clearly noted that it is your opinion, and not fact. Well, we done.
Now, everybody else on the forum, dawgstyle is clearly a heretic, if you could join me in lighting the torches, let’s get this taken care of.
Did a lil diggin. And found this: Kid has yet to declare and has a history of drops (sigh)….and Todd McShay told him he’d likely get a day 2 grade from the NFL. For whats that worth.
I hope you didn’t do too much digging. I stated that in the post…
A 2 star recruit coming out of High School, CBS currently has him listed as the 67th best player in the draft and he hasn’t declared for the NFL yet (though I’m hopeful he will despite his remaining year of eligibility).
I really think you missed the point of the post. While everything is open for discussion, this wasn’t debate. Like I explicitly stated, I’m calling my shot. Remember when I told you Patrick Mahomes was rated a third round prospect and I told you I thought he was going to be great based on what I saw on film? You gave me every scouting report under the Sun about his “awkward” throwing angles, bad footwork, coming from an Air Raid, etc. Even then, I didn’t refute those claims. They’re factual. What I stated was, in spite of those “flaws”, I felt like his skill set would translate to the NFL and he would dominate.
I’m saying the same thing about Hakeem Butler. Take a look at the highlight video I posted (for the record, you can easily find nearly every game he played in last season on YouTube). You say he doesn’t have “wiggle”. He doesn’t need it. He uses body balance and leverage to make up for it. Besides, how much wiggle do Julio Jones, Vincent Jackson, Mike Evans and Josh Gordon have? That said, look at how flexible he is at 0:12. See the separation he gets coming out of the break at 2:12?
And his drops? Not worried a bit. Watch the film. He’s getting his hands on balls no one else even sniffs. Does he drop some? Yep. It’s the truth. But…
Kansas vs. Iowa State
Every receiver has drops. Look at Higgins last week. You go ahead and worry about those drops, I’m going to stay focused on that 22.1 yards per reception (because not every receiver has that).
Mel Kiper has Butler ranked 7th on his list of the top draft-eligle wide receivers. I’m not telling you the consensus #1 WR in the draft (if there is one this year) is going to be a good pro. I’m telling you, I think this kid, considered by most to be a second day pick, is extremely undervalued. I’m telling you I think his draft stock is going to rise heading into the draft. I’m telling you I think he’s going to be a very good pro. You’re going to have the opportunity to check me at every step along the way. Regurgitating his scouting reports (which I’ve already read) won’t change my opinion though. This isn’t my hot take, it’s my analysis. I’m telling you what I see when I watch the game film, and what I see doesn’t fit the narrative that I’m reading on the web.I think were are missing each others points.
You say Butler is your boy. Got it.
I basicall said hey dude check what I found out your boy…what do you think? From my perspective you reacted like I said he sucked and wanted to take my head off.
Oh and he reminds of TP more than AJ Green as a physical analoge. What do you think?
Oh and I am aware he doesn’t need much wiggle…but it never hurts.
See I think you are getting the idea I want you to be wrong about the talent in the WR class. I DON’T. I just have yet to see evidence that it is true. I would LOVE LOVE for it to be true as the Browns need a #1 WR IMO bad. But like I said I have yet to see that proof.
Would I like the idea of a very good 6’6″ #1 WR for the Browns…Duh….thats why I was such a TP fan because of his Rare size sppeed combo. Mayfield would crush folks with a guy that could seperate like that.
Now can he get seperation and how bad are the drop issues his local apaper highlighted…..Oh and lets not forget. He has to DECLARE for the draft.
So you might have to wait a year for your boy potentially.
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
You say Butler is your boy. Got it.
I basicall said hey dude check what I found out your boy…what do you think? From my perspective you reacted like I said he sucked and wanted to take my head off.
He’s not my boy. I have no allegiance to Iowa State or to Hakeem Butler. Here’s my issue:
I stumbled across his footage while researching Heisman winner Kyler Murray’s game film. In Oklahoma’s third game of the season, Murray went 21 of 29 for 348, 3 TDs and no INTs and a 207.4 QBR. As happened when I was watching Manziel game film, a player other than the one I was studying jumped out on the film (Mike Evans). Of course the first thing I do is go and read his scouting reports. It doesn’t match what I see in that particular game, so I go out and watch other games. Maybe the Oklahoma game was an anomaly, maybe it wasn’t. Only way to be sure is to watch the rest of his games. I spent almost 6 hours watching film, looking over his stats and, ultimately, compiling that post.
Within 20 minutes of my posting, you had (presumably) read my post, watched the 4:45 video to verify/discredit my assertions and craft your response (much of which I recognized from the hours I had spent already reviewing the scouting reports).
My issue is that you want that <20 minutes of research and writing to be given equal weight with the almost 6 hours of research I did. You provide no examples, no video evidence and you talk about things like “wiggle” that are neither clearly defined or easily measured.
Here’s the thing, you have an above normal football I.Q. and, for the most part, a good gut feeling for player analysis. Hell, from time to time, regardless of how we get there, we even agree.
My point is you weren’t reading what I wrote to understand, or even consider it. Within 20 minutes you had written and posted a response. Then you reposted about him not having declared, which I had already stated. That means you didn’t read what I wrote -or- you didn’t retain what you read. I’m not trying to take your head off, it’s just hard to give what you say weight when it is obvious you did so little to obtain it. You say he has problems with drops. How many times was he targeted? Of those targets, how many of those were completed. Of the drops, where was the ball placement on the drops? Does he drop low passes or high passes? Does he drop more passes on the right side or on his left? The evidence of your assertion is the Des Moines Register. The title states:
Hakeem Butler talks NFL, getting in ISU record book and drops
The article goes on to say:
One thing Butler will have to improve upon regardless of this is his drops. They’ve plagued him throughout the season. On Saturday, he missed a wide-open pass from Brock Purdy in the second quarter that could have been a touchdown.
It literally mentions one specific drop and and that drops have plagued him throughout the season. However, as we’ve already established, every receiver has drops. How many did Butler have? Does he drop them often (plagued) or do his drops come at critical times (like the wide open touchdown)? Based on his statistics, which is the way the author meant “plagued by drops” to be read? You’ve not given me any new information, you’re just telling me what someone else said.
As for being built more like Terrelle Pryor than A.J. Green, I disagree. He’s right in the middle of both (though I think both are a fair comparison). At 6’4″ (76″) and 228 lbs, Pryor comes in at 3 lbs per inch of height. At 6’4″ (76″) and 210 lbs, Green comes in at 2.76 lbs per inch. Butler is listed at 6’6″ (78″) and 225 lbs, meaning he comes in at 2.88 lbs per inch. He is exactly 0.12 lbs per inch less than Pryor and 0.12 lbs per inch more than Green. I would argue that he has a leaner, lankier build that “looks” a little more like Green than Pryor, but that’s purely subjective.
The bigger point in all of this is that the pundits rarely know the quality of the class, particularly at skill positions from year to year. Matt Ryan was called the poor man’s Brady Quinn. With no WRs taken in the top 20 of the “weak” WR class of 2010, we saw pros Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant, Golden Tate, Emmanuel Sanders, Eric Decker and Antonio Brown. What a weak class, right? That’s my point with this year’s class. If 2010 was so weak not a single receiver was taken in the top 20, maybe the weak class of 2019 will be okay (or maybe it won’t, who knows for sure?).
I believe the entire class is undervalued. But just as teams having success getting RBs in the later rounds devalued the RB position (then along comes Saquon Barkley), so too will the success of Antonio Brown and other notable late round receivers devalue (at least temporarily) the WR position. It’s cyclical and reactive – it is a copy cat league after all.
So now I’m on the record for:
He declares for the 2019 NFL draft
He gets selected in or before the second round
He has a very good pro careerShots fired (and called).
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0On shots fired and called.
Mei culpa on you posting he hadn’t declared yet, I flat missed it. As I had open multiple screens researching the guy because you bring interesting prospects and I hadn’t heard of the dude. So I did a cannon ball into google on all things Hakkem Butler.
Also this is the longest and most discussed thread this board has had in a while that didn’t have to do with suckabetes (Shooter patent pending) and it had to with draft which has always been a favorite topic of mine and about a player I hadn’t heard of so yeah I hit the topic hard….because it was interesting.
As for Butler I hope you are right and if you are I hope he is Cleveland Brown.
As for the class being devalued. it possible. But so is it being a subpar drfat class. Both happen.
Whats ironic is if you are wrong you fall into a troupe Soup accuses me of. Of always liking the big fast athletes that don’t always end up as good football players especially at the WR position. Laquan Treadwell is the latest of that type. Moral the story please prove ole Soupy wrong 😀
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Whoa, I crack a simple joke about DawgStyle absolutely nailing Mahomes (in analysis, get your mind out of the gutter) and now I’m roped into this?
Well since we’re here. Wentz is injures yet again…
Freedom!!!
Oh and if he declares, I like WR DK Metcalf RSoph Ole Miss
By the way you may remember his uncle Eric Metcalf.
Shots called and fire for good measure.
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
Guess who has declared for the draft?
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0Guess who has declared for the draft?
DK Metcalf declared a while back.
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I also said Michael Thomas would have been a better pick then Corey Coleman at the time of their drafting and got called a buckeye honk/homer. That Coleman’s deep speed would make him the next Desean Jackson.
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I also said Michael Thomas would have been a better pick then Corey Coleman at the time of their drafting and got called a buckeye honk/homer. That Coleman’s deep speed would make him the next Desean Jackson.
Honestly any man on this forum would have been a better pick than Corey Coleman. None of us is contagious.
I also said Michael Thomas would have been a better pick then Corey Coleman at the time of their drafting and got called a buckeye honk/homer. That Coleman’s deep speed would make him the next Desean Jackson.
You also said Wentz was a beast and would be amazing and his size would be an advantage over the smaller Goff who sucks.
1 guy was injury prone in college and is injury prone in the NFL. The other guy plays Sunday in the NFC Champ game and his 3rd playoff game compared to the other guy who has zero playoff games due to always being injured…
For everyone right, we all got 100 wrong
Freedom!!!
#DYK 🤩🏈
9⃣ former Ohio Status members are set to compete for AFC/NFC Championships this Sunday. The Buckeyes have the most players competing from any CFB team, with 6⃣ marching with the @Saints.
#GoBucks
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Did my sarcasm not bleed through when I asked who his uncle was?
Honestly, not at all
Freedom!!!
The bandwagon is growing:
9. Buffalo Bills
Hakeem Butler, WR, Iowa State. Hear me out on this one … in this scenario, Jonah Williams is unavailable. The defensive line class is super deep, and Buffalo needs more downfield speed for Josh Allen. Butler is a huge wideout with a gigantic catch radius who can fly, and he had stellar production at Iowa State. He accounted for 42 percent of the Cyclones’ receiving yards — a very high figure — in 2018.818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0the combine and 40 times is going to real interesting for the large/big WR’s in this class.
IMO: 4.55 or higher IMO will drop their stock. SUb 4.5 will raise it. 4.4 and beyond for the bigger guys will shoot them up the board like a rocket.
With the caveat that everything else checks out.
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I disagree with you Dawgsoldier. I think the combine measurables are almost worthless compared to what they’ve done on the field. Only a few of the exercises actually show skill (the gauntlet comes to mind), the rest of it is just the underwear olympics.
the rest of it is just the underwear olympics.
I have a few medals in the Underwear Olympics. I took Silver in ’97 when a poor dismount cost me the Gold but I was able to rebound 2 years later and grab 2 Golds before the turn of the millennium. This century has been pretty much pure dominance. I’m basically Michael Phelps.
I disagree with you Dawgsoldier. I think the combine measurables are almost worthless compared to what they’ve done on the field. Only a few of the exercises actually show skill (the gauntlet comes to mind), the rest of it is just the underwear olympics.
You forget, Jon Gruden is now picking players.
Freedom!!!
I disagree with you Dawgsoldier. I think the combine measurables are almost worthless compared to what they’ve done on the field. Only a few of the exercises actually show skill (the gauntlet comes to mind), the rest of it is just the underwear olympics.
timed speed directly correlates to the ability to uncover on vertical routes.
Same thing with the 3 cone on out’s digs and such.
The combine tests are just there for show. It’s there to confirm what you have seen on on film and let you know which film you might need to go watch if you never have seen a prospects film.
Food for thought on this from the Browns GM: https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/02/what_nfl_scouting_combine_dril.html
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Butler invited to the combine:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.desmoinesregister.com/amp/2710501002
Watch this kid, his stock is about to shoot through the roof!
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0Butler invited to the combine:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.desmoinesregister.com/amp/2710501002
Watch this kid, his stock is about to shoot through the roof!Hopefully he tests more like Mike Evans than Kelvin Benjamin.
The combine will be illuminating in general for this WR class IMO.
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Belicheck has made a career out of drafting guys who were much better football players than athletes.
I suspect this young man will be both; a freak physical specimen that will be a very productive football player. I’m really hoping he falls to the Browns, because I think he is the kind of explosive player that Dorsey likes. Here is his highlight real from last season. I know you can’t judge a player off of just his highlights, but this kid has the ability to do things that other humans simply can’t do. Watch the video and tell me I’m wrong.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0I simply don’t understand how this kid is not just “under the radar”, but not considered the best WR in this class by a significant margin. He has the physical tools to be a top 25 all time WR. The height, speed, jumping ability, body control – outside of (maybe) Calvin Johnson where have you seen this before (I’d argue that Johnson is probably faster in the 40, but Butler is going to put on one of the most dominant combine performances we’ve seen in awhile)?
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0First off that video is fire. He trashed CB’s who tried to take him down. Picked one up with his off hand, pulled the CB off his feet, and set him down on his ass behind him while he was running with the football.
Reading some reviews here are the negatives I’ve gleaned. He’s a long-strider who needs a lot of track to get up to full speed. He’s fast rather than quick. He needs to work on his routes. He is prone to getting pushed off his route stem. He’s basically a deep threat without elite quickness or speed. He’s not gonna fool anyone on break away routes.
Those are what’s keeping him from being an elite WR prospect, but that dude balls out. That’s the kind of guy who could make a big difference as a gunner too.
I’ve read the negative reviews. What I can’t find is film that substantiates the print. Did he have bad plays? Sure. But nothing I saw looked chronic.
Now I will say I agree with the long strider criticism. But he is quick enough (and it shows on film). His leaping ability and body control are insane. In that regard, he reminds me a lot of…ugh…I really don’t want to say it, but…Josh Gordon.
I think this kid will be even more effective than “Flash” at the next level. He is going to “Gronkowski” style abuse DBs at the next level.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0I’ve read the negative reviews. What I can’t find is film that substantiates the print. Did he have bad plays? Sure. But nothing I saw looked chronic.
Now I will say I agree with the long strider criticism. But he is quick enough (and it shows on film). His leaping ability and body control are insane. In that regard, he reminds me a lot of…ugh…I really don’t want to say it, but…Josh Gordon.
I think this kid will be even more effective than “Flash” at the next level. He is going to “Gronkowski” style abuse DBs at the next level.he moves more like Njoku than Gordon IMO.
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
I get that he’s big and hard to tackle, but I don’t see anything in his movement that reminds me of Njoku at all. What examples are you looking at? I’m genuinely curious, because I don’t see that at all. Long stride speed? I see that. Body balance and reaching back over the corner to complete the catch? I see that. Bending and shedding tacklers? I see that.
Does anyone else see what DawgSoldier sees?
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0the long stride high jump and big frame remind me of Njoku’s movements.
if you had a video where they were blacked out silhouettes in motion side by side, it would be hard to tell who was who IMO.
BTW the way my comparison is nether a compliment nor a dig. It is just who he reminds me of.
Same with DK Metcalf and Josh Gordon.
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
I understand your methodology, but not your interpretation of the results. That’s why I asked for others to weigh in. Maybe I’m biased and just don’t see it.
To me, Metcalf at 6’4” and 230lbs is much closer in build than Butler at 6’6” and 225lbs. Butler also appeared a lot more “Gumby” when breaking tackles where Metcalf seemed to rely on his power.
They only had one common opponent last season. Metcalf against TTU posted 4 receptions for 81 yard (20.3 avg) and a TD and a long of 58. Butler posted 4 receptions for 148 yards (37.0 avg) and a TD with a long of 48. While admittedly a very small sample, I believe it highlights the difference in explosiveness I see between the two players considering Metcalf season average was 21.9 yards per reception (through 7 games) while Butler averaged 22.0 yards per reception over 13 games. In his 7 games, Metcalf went over 100 yards just twice, failing to go above 115 yards in a game. In his first 7 games, Butler went over 100 yards 4 times, posting games of 192 yards, 144 yards, 164 yards and 148 yards (respectively).
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0The stats thing can be a misleading, because Butler was the main target by a mile at Iowa St. Where as Ole Miss had better starting 3 WR than several NFL teams with Brown, Lodge, and Metcalf. Brown BTW compares to Perriman rather well IMO and Lodge to Higgans as well.
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
The stats could be misleading, except they each had 4 receptions. It’s what they did with those receptions that I’m drawing attention to. In the scenario you outline above, TTU defenders would not have been able to focus on Metcalf the same way they did Butler because of Brown and Lodge, making what Butler did with those 4 receptions even more impressive.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0He just looks raw to me. Needs to work quite a bit on route running but has amazing physical gifts. Hey if that means he falls to us later in the draft them I’m perfectly ok with it.
I’m not arguing that he’s not raw. I’m just saying I don’t see Njoku when I watch him play.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0I don’t really see Njoku either. My comment was more about the overarching thread topic of ‘why isn’t he the top WR’
I’m not arguing that he’s not raw. I’m just saying I don’t see Njoku when I watch him play.
How about this guy as a comparison?
http://www.draftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=263&draftyear=2000&genpos=WR
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
He’s nowhere near the catcher that Burress was. I think Anquan Boldin is a better comparison. But that’s the TYPE player he is, not the level he plays at.
Game recognizes game.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2019/02/25/calvin-johnson-hakeem-butler-lions
Group 5 arrives tomorrow, runs and works out Saturday. I’m doubling down. This “second or third rounder” is going to dominate at the combine and present his case to be the top WR in the 2019 draft.
Note: I’m not arguing that he’ll necessarily be the first WR taken (though I think he’ll be considered more highly after the combine). Trubisky was taken before Mahomes, who I was advocating for. My argument is that Butler SHOULD be the number one WR taken in this draft.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0Prediction on Butler’s 40?
Butler isn’t slow but he doesn’t seem to posses high end acceleration. IE he might time better if it were a 100 yard event vs his peers than a 40 yard event vs his peers.
I’m guessing 4.55 to 4.58
Metcalf i’m guessing a between a 4.40 and a 4.43
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
I think it depends on how he gets out of the blocks. An upper 4.5 time wouldn’t surprise me, but neither would a 4.45-4.49. He is smooth in his strides and fast vs. quick, and his long strides remind me of Gordon (Gordon was quicker though). For a guy like this, the 40 is more about technique than ability (I’ve seen him run away from entire defenses after the catch). In addition to his measureables, I think his jumping ability, agility and body balance are going to stand out. If he can run under 4.5 in the 40, he’s going to steal the show.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0Prediction on Butler’s 40?
I hope he doesn’t get injured. Pulling a hammy has happened to guys before.
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
He’s nowhere near the catcher that Burress was. I think Anquan Boldin is a better comparison. But that’s the TYPE player he is, not the level he plays at.
Bucky Brooks shares his top deep threat WRs in 2019 draft
NFL Network's Bucky Brooks shares the top deep threat wide receivers in the 2019 NFL Draft
Posted by Cleveland Browns on Wednesday, February 27, 2019
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
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