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whether we argue or agree, we both agree shooter is an idiot / jk
I think that that is universally accepted common knowledge. Up there with “the Earth is round”, and when you stub your toe there will always be just long enough of a delay of the pain for you to think “oh man this is going to hurt really ba……AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!”
always a good sense of humor
Hue Jackson is a loser.
The problem is Joey Bosa is the best player in this years draft and most likely he will not go number 1. How can Cleveland Browns pass on JJ Watts 2.0? Yes we need a QB….but its deeper than that. The organization needs an attitude change. The Organization has zero leadership. A rookie QB will never do well here. The tradition is losing and that will never change until it starts from the top and the vets.
I’d pass on Watt for Aaron Rodgers or Big Ben anyday of the week. While the defenses dominated this past Super Bowl (much to my love as it’s my favorite part of the game) it was #1 overall pick vs #1 overall pick at the QB position. The team leader is the QB — on both sides of the ball. The more the defense believes in the QB the better they play and more confident they are – allowing them to play looser rather than play tight with fear that one mistake means the game is over. Aside from that – Bosa plays for OSU – he will be a bust. The only OSU player worth anything is Zeke. That kid will be a great NFL back.
They won a National Championship. If you think the only player on the Buckeyes is any good, that would make sense about your football opinion. You probably didn’t watch the Super Bowl and didn’t notice the 3 players playing for Carolina that were also Buckeyes.
Was Turdburger or Rodgers picked in the top 5? You think Goff is anything like those two? Show me some statistic (or Soupstitics) of their college careers that you think Goff is anything like these two you are comparing.How have you not figured out that I rip on OSU yearly because of how bad it riles people up? If I really thought that about Bosa do you think I’d have waited until now to say it?
The one truth of my opinion is I do believe Zeke will be the best pro from OSU. The other truth that I stated previously is Cardale Jones should be a UDFA as he has no discernable skills to play QB in the NFL worth a draft pick.
Freedom!!!
Mayock: Carson Wentz’s ceiling similar to Andrew Luck’s
Carson Wentz? Missouri Valley Conference? History could be made
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Mike Mayock on Goff vs Wentz:
“The first piece of it is some people are Wentz guys, some people are Goff guys around the league. If you’re a Goff guy, it’s because he’s more polished and ready to go day one. He’s got beautiful pocket awareness, really good feet, the ball comes out quickly with a quick release, he’s accurate with good arm strength.
“If you’re Cleveland at No. 2, and you’re looking for a quarterback ready to go on day one, he’s the more logical guy today.”
“I look at Carson Wentz, 6’5 1/2 235 [pounds], and he’s as good or better of an athlete than Andrew Luck. He has a big arm, he’s been under center. He’s only started 23 games, and people are going to kill him for being in a Division I-AA program, but I see a guy, who in 2-3 years from now, the ceiling is unlimited. I have him at No. 1 because I love his upside. I’m scared to death that we rarely develop quarterbacks in our league anymore, which makes me worry.”
Notice how – just like I stated about everyone’s fascination – his big thing with Wentz is BIG FRAME and BIG ARM. His last line is very telling. We don’t have time to wait another 3 years (Hue has 2 at most as Haslam has proved).
Freedom!!!
Mike Mayock on Goff vs Wentz:
“The first piece of it is some people are Wentz guys, some people are Goff guys around the league. If you’re a Goff guy, it’s because he’s more polished and ready to go day one. He’s got beautiful pocket awareness, really good feet, the ball comes out quickly with a quick release, he’s accurate with good arm strength.
“If you’re Cleveland at No. 2, and you’re looking for a quarterback ready to go on day one, he’s the more logical guy today.”
“I look at Carson Wentz, 6’5 1/2 235 [pounds], and he’s as good or better of an athlete than Andrew Luck. He has a big arm, he’s been under center. He’s only started 23 games, and people are going to kill him for being in a Division I-AA program, but I see a guy, who in 2-3 years from now, the ceiling is unlimited. I have him at No. 1 because I love his upside. <strong class=”d4pbbc-bold”>I’m scared to death that we rarely develop quarterbacks in our league anymore, which makes me worry.”
Notice how – just like I stated about everyone’s fascination – his big thing with Wentz is BIG FRAME and BIG ARM. His last line is very telling. We don’t have time to wait another 3 years (Hue has 2 at most as Haslam has proved).Actually it’s the combination of: pro scheme experiance, 4.0 GPA, high character personality grades AND his size and physical ability.
You keep ignoring the 1st part for some reason. Then again you hide from ignore things you don’t like or don’t agree with anyways like a child. SO I shouldn’t be surprised.
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As it stands, from all I’ve read on both of those guys, Goff is the most pro-ready to jump in now, Wentz has the higher ceiling, but likely won’t be ready for 2-3 years.
I’ll say this much, regardless of which (if either, according to Jackson’s press conference yesterday) one we pick, there’s no real “wrong” choice. Because this team sure as shit isn’t going to the playoffs this year, barring a miracle. Even Haslam knows it’s gonna take a few years to get fixed.
Question is, are you prepared to drive the car off the cliff if “your guy” doesn’t get picked?
If you love big QB’s then Lynch deserves to be in the discussion. Lynch is bigger and stronger than Wentz. He’s 6’7″ 245. Just like Wentz there are a lot of questions to be answered. Wentz’ issue is he hasn’t been tested enough against truly talented players. Lynch’s issue is that he ran an offense that wouldn’t work in the NFL. Both of them can rocket the ball, both of them can move it on the ground. Both of them might take a little more time to become a solid NFL pro. The last “NFL-ready” QB we took got sacked by the American flag and was mostly a joke (Weeden). I don’t believe the pundits when they say “NFL-Ready”. It’s not an assessment they are qualified to make.
Again, it comes down to how the browns want to handle the situation at QB. As in, start him immediately or sit him for a year(+) to groom?
I like McCown. I like his leadership and think he fills the void of stopgap very well. Whoever we draft I could see it as a Danielson/Kosar situation, and I have no issues at all with that. That scenerio gives the Browns more headroom in drafting a QB as they can go for the guy who has the higher ceiling overall but needs time to grow.
If they want the QB they take to get on the field immediately, well then they have to draft the guy who is most capable of playing right away, even if it means sacrificing overall potential.
I guess it’s going to depend on what road the browns want to go down as a key factor in who they take. If they take Wentz and trot him out there in September, it’s probably going to be pretty ugly. Same with Lynch. If they take Goff, right after he gets done shaking Goodells hand they browns are most likely going to tell him “get ready kid, you’re going out there”.
I guess we’ll find out soon enough.
Goff measured in at 6-4 215 with 9″ hands. This explains his 23 fumbles in GOOD weather at Cal. The excepted threshold is 9 1/8″
Hue Jackson, a quarterback expert who’s coached Joe Flacco and Andy Dalton in the AFC North and Carson Palmer in Oakland, said hand size matters.
“Oh yes it does,” Jackson said at his podium appearance here. “It does. It matters because we play in a division where all of a sudden there’s rain, there’s snow and it’s different. I think guys that have big hands can grip the ball better in those environmental situations and so we’ll look for a guy that fits what we’re looking for in a quarterback and is hand size important? Yes it is.”
Wentz came in at 6-5 237 and 10″ Hands.
The last guy that came into the league and was drafted in the top 5 and had any kind of QB success was Mike Vick
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QB spread sheet
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http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/47036/311/exploring-qb-hand-size
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I guess that’s improved with time…Goff fumbled 10 times his first year, 9 times his second…and a whopping 4 his third.
That’s not terrible, is it?
@Soup – You may be right….but it is way too early to say that. I mean guys fade away everyday. I do agree with you on Jones. He should not get drafted. But if I was a pro team, I would give him a try out. I guarantee Belicheck checks him out.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
@Ice – I get sick of Browns fans referring to players as NFL ready. No player in “NFL ready” until they make it through training camp with a starting position
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Carson Wentz is early favorite to be top QB picked in NFL draft
Tom Pelissero, USA TODAY SportsINDIANAPOLIS – There is no strong consensus on the NFL draft’s top quarterback as prospects prepare to air it out at the scouting combine Saturday.
But conversations with evaluators in and around Lucas Oil Stadium yield an impression that Cal’s Jared Goff and others have ground to make up after North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz impressed on the field and in interviews at last month’s Senior Bowl.
“I knew once (Wentz) got around the coaches and stuff, they’d eat him up,” one veteran scout told USA TODAY Sports, speaking on condition of anonymity for competitive reasons. “This guy’s unique. He’s just different. And obviously, he’s 6-5, 230, and can spin it like a mother.”
The evaluation process is just getting ramped up, especially for quarterbacks. For many NFL coaches, Saturday’s workout will be their first significant exposure to underclassmen such as Goff and Memphis’ Paxton Lynch. Most personnel departments already have met to set an initial board, though, providing a window into thinking within the league.
In advance of Saturday’s throwing session, a question posed to general managers and other scouts for six NFL teams – who will be the first quarterback taken? – yielded four votes for Wentz and two for Goff.
An executive for a seventh team said he thought the first QB taken would be Goff until he saw the measurements Thursday morning: 6-foot-4, 215 pounds and 9-inch hands, which aren’t prohibitive to success but fall a little short of the ideal threshold.
“He’s smart enough. He’s going to work hard enough,” said one scout who has studied Goff extensively. “He understands how to move in the pocket. Got good feet. He’s a good enough athlete. Easy, quick release.”
That scout also raised a question about Goff’s ability to drive certain throws, though that’s one he can start to answer in workouts. Goff, 21, started more college games (37 to Wentz’s 23) while playing in the Pac-12. But North Dakota State is a big-time program in its own right, having extended its run of Division I FCS titles to five with Wentz, 23, at QB the past two years.
One GM said Wentz’s edge comes down to the physical traits: bigger and sturdier build, 10-inch hands, exceptional athletic ability for his size. Unlike Goff, Wentz has played a lot from under center. A personnel director said Wentz is the better interview, too. It’s hard to poke a hole in him.
That the Cleveland Browns own the No. 2 pick and new coach Hue Jackson stressed the value of hand size in bad AFC North weather fits into the thinking Wentz is their guy, assuming nobody leapfrogs to No. 1 in a trade with the Tennessee Titans to get him first.
Still, it’s early. Everyone prefers different flavors. One offensive coordinator who has done preliminary work on all the quarterbacks said he could see three of them being the first taken – including Lynch, based mostly on his own rare physical traits and raw ability.
“The guy can make any throw he wants. He has plenty of arm,” an executive for a different team said of Lynch. “There’s other people that love him more than me. I think it’s going to take a little bit.”
Several scouts also predicted Michigan State’s Connor Cook may end up being the best QB to come out of this class. But he’s far from a first-round lock because of widespread concern about his personality and leadership ability, as well as some issues that show up on tape, including his mechanics under pressure.
They’re all expected to throw Saturday. So are Penn State’s Christian Hackenberg, Ohio State’s Cardale Jones, Mississippi State’s Dak Prescott and a handful of others likely to be drafted in what one GM called an unusually deep class – albeit one that may lack a clear, franchise-type guy at the top.
For now, the best bet is Wentz.
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All this logic in here. Impressive.
We’re highly trained Mav. Our prognostications are expertly tuned both in skill and scope. We have no rivals.
All this logic in here. Impressive.
We’re highly trained Mav. Our prognostications are expertly tuned both in skill and scope. We have no rivals.
It’s what i excel at. 😀
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I guess that’s improved with time…Goff fumbled 10 times his first year, 9 times his second…and a whopping 4 his third.
That’s not terrible, is it?13 fumbles in his last 25 games.
Wentz – 9 fumbles in his last 23 games.
Overall it’s pretty meaningless IMO as each guy – you’d have to see the fumbles to see what happened – on top of that:
In 37 starts Goff rushed the ball/scrambled 170 times (4.5 times per gam)
In 23 starts Wentz rushed the ball 201 times (8.7 times per game)
You have to know if it was running the ball and/or from blindside hits, etc.
Side note:
For all those praising Wentz being in a “pro-style” offense – note that over a 16 game NFL season – 8.7 ATT/Game = 139 attempts rushing. Cam Newton lead all NFL QB’s with 132 attempts rushing. Tyrod Taylor and Russell Wilson were the only 2 other QBs over 100 attempts. Wentz was more read option than traditional pro-offense.
Freedom!!!
As for hand size:
North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz, another of the draft’s top QBs, measured with 10-inch hands on Thursday. The benchmark for adequacy when it comes to hand size for NFL quarterbacks, though different clubs have different opinions, is said to be in the 9-inch range. As such, Goff’s hands won’t necessarily be considered small or a liability; they’ll just look small compared to those of Wentz.
And FYI – hand size measurement is fairly new to the combine. Big Ben measurement in 2004’s combine? Unknown, because they didn’t do it then.
Freedom!!!
Johnny Manziel has bigger hands than Blake Bortles.
Manziel fumbled 7 times in 14 gams.
As a rookie – Bortles fumbled 4 times in 14 games.
In year 2 Bortles started 16 in a row and fumbled 8 times.
Tony Romo has hands UNDER 9 inches. He fumbled 6 times in his last 34 games combined
Hand size = meaningless. So please – throw out this idiotic thing about hand size.
Freedom!!!
Johnny Manziel has bigger hands than Blake Bortles.
Manziel fumbled 7 times in 14 gams.
As a rookie – Bortles fumbled 4 times in 14 games.
In year 2 Bortles started 16 in a row and fumbled 8 times.
Tony Romo has hands UNDER 9 inches. He fumbled 6 times in his last 34 games combined
Hand size = meaningless. So please – throw out this idiotic thing about hand size.Sorry not gonna fly the browns head football coach says it is important. Nice try though on the spin for goff.
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INDIANAPOLIS — Cal quarterback Jared Goff measured with 9-inch hands at the NFL Scouting Combine on Thursday, falling short in a category that is of higher importance for quarterbacks for NFL scouts.
Browns coach Hue Jackson, whose team is believed to be the first threat to take a quarterback off the board with the draft’s No. 2 overall pick, emphasized the importance of big hands for QBs on Wednesday.
“It matters because we play in a division where all of a sudden there’s rain, there’s snow and it’s different. I think guys that have big hands can grip the ball better in those environmental situations,” Jackson said.
On the other hand, Cincinnati Bengals director of player personnel Duke Tobin seemed less concerned about a prospect’s hand size.
“It’s a little bit useless as a measurement,” Tobin said. “When you shake a guy’s hand, you know whether or not if they have a big hand or not.”
Goff had an opportunity to chime in on the hand-size debate on Thursday and he defended his mitts from the scrutiny.
“I’ve been told I have pretty big hands my whole life,” Goff said. “I heard I have small hands yesterday, apparently. Naw, I’ve never had a problem with that or expect it to be a problem at all.”
Perhaps Goff should take a tip from Arkansas quarterback Brandon Allen, whose small hand measurement at the Senior Bowl compelled him to increase his hand size through massage therapy.
North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz, another of the draft’s top QBs, measured with 10-inch hands on Thursday. The benchmark for adequacy when it comes to hand size for NFL quarterbacks, though different clubs have different opinions, is said to be in the 9-inch range. As such, Goff’s hands won’t necessarily be considered small or a liability; they’ll just look small compared to those of Wentz.
And small, perhaps, for the AFC North. Starting AFC North quarterbacks Joe Flacco (9 5/8) and Andy Dalton (9 1/2) are both above the 9-inch mark; Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger’s hand size wasn’t made public at the 2004 combine.
In one of the few games Goff struggled in his college career, he completed just 3 of 6 passes for 11 yards in a rainstorm in 2013 as a freshman against Oregon. Later that season, Goff was confronted with stiff winds in a road game at Colorado, and struggled in a 41-24 loss.
Another of the draft’s signal-callers, Penn State’s Christian Hackenberg, also measured with 9-inch hands.
Goff and Wentz are expected to be the first two quarterbacks chosen. In which order they’re picked, however, is a matter of greater speculation. Hand size, of course, will be only one of many determining factors, but it’s a category that Wentz won — well, handily — at the combine on Thursday.
So yeah Hue Jackson knows more than Soup on this issue. As usual Soup losses.
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You guys want a bold, strategic move?
I bought a burrito from Chipotle for lunch yesterday.
Used my wife’s check card to pay for it.
The Browns should fuckin hire me, my methods might not make too much damn sense, but I know how to get straight to the issue.
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NFL combine: Carson Wentz, Paxton Lynch solidify status as two of the top quarterbacks
A pair of projected-first rounders in Carson Wentz and Paxton Lynch did nothing but solidify their status as two of the top quarterbacks in the upcoming NFL draft after completing on-field workouts.
The second group of draft-eligible quarterbacks ran through drills Saturday at the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis’ Lucas Oil Stadium , with North Dakota State ’s Wentz, Memphis’ Lynch, Ohio State’s Cardale Jones and Mississippi State ’s Dak Prescott highlighting the group.
Wentz zipped tight spirals in short-to-intermediate routes, showcasing a quick release, good velocity and good timing. He did misfire on a few shorter passes, but tossed went deep with ease.
Wentz has quickly become one of the fastest-rising players up draft boards after a strong performance in the Senior Bowl last month. Based on a survey of a group of NFL team executives, USA TODAY Sports found out that Wentz is the early favorite to be the first quarterback selected.
“The more I see of this kid and the more I hear from teams on him, I’m convinced he’s a Top 10 pick,” NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock said during the broadcast.http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
Charlie Campbell @ DraftCampbell 22m 22 minutes ago
Sources with the Cleveland # Browns say Jared Goff’s interview was poor. He was very nervous. On Carson Wentz they say “Stud. Absolute Stud.”http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psUuk19ZFfg
Somebody quote this, so others can see this.
You want a QB process information and get it. Watch this.
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http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/28/carson-wentz-nfl-draft-combine-north-dakota
he Pride of North Dakota
Carson Wentz, the boy from Bismarck, took the NFL combine by storm and has a governor and senator in his corner as he tries to become the first quarterback taken in the 2016 draft. Plus more notes from Indy, a Peyton Manning update and the Rams try to solve a L.A. logistical puzzleGregory Payan/AP
INDIANAPOLIS — The governor of North Dakota, Jack Dalrymple, was on the phone from Bismarck on Saturday afternoon. The state stopped for an hour or so Saturday to watch favorite son Carson Wentz from North Dakota State run and throw at the NFL Scouting Combine. If they couldn’t watch on TV, they could call their neighbors and ask how Wentz was doing down with the big boys at Lucas Oil Stadium.
“I’ve been in contact with quite a few North Dakotans today,” Dalrymple said, “and everyone’s saying, ‘Any word on Carson? What do you hear?’ I never remember anything like this before in our state. He’s down there throwing in front of all those coaches and scouts, and Bill Belichick is watching Carson? Well, our buttons are just popping.”
Is there a more North Dakotan thing you could imagine the governor saying?
I don’t know quite how to write this or communicate it without sounding all Leave It To Beaver. But it’s like North Dakota has sent its best and its brightest to the biggest league there is, and the state is holding its breath to see if local boy makes good. And in a cynical burn-Goodell-at-the-stake time for the NFL, when head trauma and a 20-year-old Peyton Manning scandal and a Deflategate appeal rearing its ugly head are the headlines of the day, there’s something, well, needed about a humble straight-A student (I mean, Wentz has never gotten a B in school) trying to become the state’s best athletic export since Roger Maris left Fargo 62 years ago.
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This is a not a marquee draft. At all. A shy offensive tackle from Mississippi, Laremy Tunsil, is the odds-on-favorite to be the first overall pick. There isn’t a no-doubt quarterback in the draft (though Wentz and Jared Goff and perhaps Paxton Lynch will go in the top half of the first round), nor was there an offensive splash player that riveted the coaches and scouts at the combine. There are some good defensive tackles—you can’t put those guys on billboards—but there’s not a can’t-miss, big-name guy on defense, unless you’re in love with Joey Bosa. (Some teams are.) And recent duds Tennessee and Cleveland and San Diego pick 1-2-3 in this juice-less lottery.
The point is, I could see Wentz becoming the big star of a starless draft. Not that he cares, or wants the attention. He won’t want it. But the NFL does a good job of inventing heroes, and the first quarterback picked in any draft is going to get the hype machine going. And as teams prepare to leave Indianapolis at the close of the combine today, with the draft two months away, Wentz could be that guy. Cleveland has a crying need post-Manziel for a franchise quarterback. It’s too early to ID the leader in the clubhouse, but the temperatures I took of quarterback-needy teams over the week showed Wentz leading in the race for first quarterback off the board.
What I heard from two teams that met with Wentz this weekend was consistent with what happened at the Senior Bowl last month. The attention and jump from the second division of college football to the NFL hasn’t been a big factor to Wentz, the 6-5 red-head with a scraggly beard and easy demeanor.
“It’s just football,” Wentz told me as he waited for his shuttle to the airport after throwing Saturday afternoon.
“Everything that comes with the game, I think I will handle it extremely easily,” he said. “I don’t let a lot of that outside stuff bother me. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about the jump in competition. Even at North Dakota State, football is a big deal. Now I understand it is going to be ramped up times five. But I’ve never let outside anything distract me or make me press to do better or make me get down in the dumps because they are saying something that really bothers me. I stay focused on what I can control and just be the best I can be.”
Carson Wentz helped lead North Dakota State to an FCS national title in 2015.
Photo: David Purdy/Getty Images
Carson Wentz helped lead North Dakota State to an FCS national title in 2015.The best a kid from Bismarck (population: 61,000) can be was good enough to win back-to-back FBS national titles at North Dakota State. Those who know Wentz think he’ll withstand the heaviness of the burden he’s about to experience. “We live in Bismarck,” said North Dakota senator John Hoeven. “We know the family. We know Carson. And he is absolutely a class act. So humble, so respectful. He’s exactly the kind of person we’d want representing our state—and he’s exactly the kind of person a team would want as its quarterback.”
NFL backup quarterback Ryan Lindley is Wentz’s personal quarterback coach this winter. Lindley worked with Wentz for six weeks in Irvine, Calif., prepping for the combine, and they’ll continue the sessions Tuesday after a short break. (Coincidentally, Lindley, who was retained by agent Ryan Tollner to prep Wentz, is working with Tollner’s other client too: Goff. Lindley is training two guys who want to beat each other out and become the first passer picked in the draft.) “[Carson] is everything that is pure about the game,” Lindley said Sunday night. “He is so refreshing. That’s the word that comes to mind—refreshing. Sadly, some of us lose that as we get rubbed the wrong way in the game sometimes.”
As for the jump in competition? “I played in the Mountain West Conference,” said Lindley, “and I think that’ll be about the same jump for Carson coming from North Dakota State. If you put too much stock in that, you’ll be looking at the wrong thing. Look at the mental aspect of a quarterback’s job in the NFL, and the responsibility of a quarterback. Carson does as much before the snap as anyone I’ve seen in college. He ran a pro style offense in college, and he’s doing more than lots of guys in the pros too. Carson runs his protection. He makes checks at the line and tells the line where to slide. They gave him plays or series at North Dakota State where they’d call the formation, and then Carson would have to make a call of a play, then go to the line and move protection if he had to. I talk to Carson about those things, and he just gets giddy. He’s not going to have a problem with the mental aspect, or the work ethic. He just loves this stuff.”
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This weekend, throwing against no one (the combine custom for quarterbacks), Wentz displayed an easy motion and strong mechanics. He completed three straight deep post-corner routes. Lindley wants him working on using his legs more to help him “get another gear on his throws.” And the game will be faster, which is an adjustment for every quarterback.
It’s easy to say Wentz will adapt. Joe Flacco, from Delaware did—and right away with the Ravens in 2008 as a mid-first-round pick. The only two passers from smaller schools picked in the top 10—Phil Simms (1979, Morehead State) and Steve McNair (1995, Alcorn State)—over the past 40 years made it too. It just took longer. Wentz will need to go to a program with some patience. If it’s Cleveland, and the Browns keep Josh McCown, he’d be a great mentor for Wentz—patient and smart and truly unselfish; new coach Hue Jackson would be a good coach, deflecting the pressure, for Wentz. But he’d probably have to play quickly. In Dallas, picking fourth, he’d get to learn behind a pro, Tony Romo. In San Francisco, picking seventh, he’d have a good quarterback brain in Chip Kelly.
Wentz probably should sit for a year and soak in the new world. But who knows if he’ll get that chance? And he did so much in college in a pro style scheme that maybe he can overcome the gulf in competition because of his mental edge.
* * *Photo: Joe Robbins/Getty Images
Wentz is back in Fargo today, and he’ll feel the love around campus. The public love, he said, “I don’t feel a ton, but I know they have my back and I know they are crazy supportive. I am definitely appreciative of that and North Dakota always will be home. Hard work is the mantra around there. I just want to represent the state extremely well and I take great pride in where I am from. But all the pressure that might come with that, it’s easy for me to not worry about that and focus on what I can control and that’s getting better every day, coming to the combine and proving myself and taking it one day at a time.”
When Wentz talks about the biggest players in the game, and what he’s learned from watching them, there’s a humility but no sense he feels like he doesn’t belong. “Names that come to mind that I’ve learned from are Tom Brady—the way he gets the ball out and it so decisive. You can tell he is in total control out there. Another name is Aaron Rodgers, and how he’s in total command. And also, Cam Newton, the way he has fun. I love that part of it. I won’t be as flashy as him, but I love the energy. That’s what I like to bring to practice and bring to games, just the energy and emotion.”
Wentz didn’t mention confidence, but watching some plays of his on YouTube, it’s pretty obvious he has faith in his ability. In the final minute against Northern Iowa last year, he threw to a blanketed wideout, Darrius Shepherd. It was a perfect 18-yard rainbow, dropped into a spot where only Shepherd could catch it.
“I just have to have trust in my guys to make plays,” he said. “I play at a confident, fast pace, and when I like something, I take it. I rip it.”
Now about the straight A’s, forever. Growing up in Bismarck, Wentz started getting letter grades in fourth grade. It sounds nuts, and it probably is nuts, but Wentz said even through college, from fourth grade till last semester at North Dakota State, he’d never gotten a grade lower than an A. “I take great pride in the things I do. If I am given a task, I’m going to do it with 110 percent of my ability. I was trying to be the best I can be at everything so that’s how I applied myself to academics, the same way I do for football, the same way I do to my faith and everything in my life. I came close a couple of times [to a B], got a couple of low A’s, but I pulled it out in the end and it’s still an A.’’
Teams will spend the next two months looking for flaws in Wentz’s football and life games. They may have to look hard. Just ask the governor. Or senator. Or anyone in the state, apparently.http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
WELCOME BACK, MAV!!!!!!!!!!!
Am I going mad, or did the word THINK escape your lips? You were not hired for your brains, you hippopotamic landmass!
QB randomness from searching on Yahoo:
First, the divide between the top two quarterbacks might have slightly increased. Cal’s Jared Goff performed very well Saturday in front of NFL decision-makers. He showed complete control throughout his workout and easily made all of the throws.
North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz didn’t disappoint, per se. He simply didn’t put together a nearly flawless workout. And that’s OK. But he’s going to be continually compared to Goff. Wentz did show an effortless throwing throwing motion and a big arm, though.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2620138-nfl-combine-2016-live-results-analysis-and-highlights-for-qb-wr-te-workoutsGoff rated #1 QB by CBS – http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2016/QB
•North Dakota State quarterback Carson Wentz (6-5, 232) had a strong Combine performance. Wentz is a mobile and athletic quarterback who tied for the second-fastest 40 time of 4.77 seconds. In the field work, Wentz spun the ball well. Wentz had good footwork and quiet feet that led to him setting up well after dropping from under center. There were some throws where timing was a bit off, but Wentz was throwing to unfamiliar receivers. He did make some beautiful deep throws as well. Overall, the Combine went well for Wentz.
• Cal quarterback Jared Goff had a nice showing at the Combine. Goff threw the ball well in the field drills. In the 40-yard dash, Goff posted a time of 4.82 seconds. He showed off a smooth, good release. He has quick feet and with an easy motion that led to some accurate passes. Goff’s deep balls were a touch flat, and he needed more air underneath some of those throws. That in part illustrates that Goff has a quality arm, but not a powerful one. Overall, he had a strong showing at Indianapolis to confirm the high estimates with his draft projection.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/combine2016workoutQB.php#fUjW7FysJbsbxiI5.99
Freedom!!!
This has honestly become a case of comparing a really good chocolate cake to a really good cheesecake. I’ve read reports on both of these QBs and neither one of them are in any way a bad choice, as far as I’m concerned. It’s really going to boil down to what Hue wants for the foreseeable future…does he want a guy he can plug right in (Goff)? Or does he want someone to hold a clipboard behind McCown (Wentz)?
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how many rooftops you jump on and sing their praises for…because I can just about guarantee Hue’s mind is made up, we the people don’t know who it’ll be…if a QB at all. But I gotta say, after watching them both perform, I’m good either way.
Let’s just hope that Hue gets the one he wants at #2, and that Dallas doesn’t jump over us and take that guy away. Because THAT would really suck.
Agreed Bill.
After reading and watching, I think I’m leaning more towards taking Wentz and the higher ceiling and having him sit behind McCown for a year. I won’t be upset if we take Goff, but the thought of him going out there day 1 terrifies me because we’ve seen them get just absolutely ruined that way.
Agreed Bill.
After reading and watching, I think I’m leaning more towards taking Wentz and the higher ceiling and having him sit behind McCown for a year. I won’t be upset if we take Goff, but the thought of him going out there day 1 terrifies me because we’ve seen them get just absolutely ruined that way.And we’ve seen others not get ruined that way. Read between the lines on Wentz. His knocks are that he’s inaccurate and can’t read a defense.
From the combine above proving that (and the writer is in love with Wentz):
There were some throws where timing was a bit off, but Wentz was throwing to unfamiliar receivers.
Now look at these highlights. He’s Derek Anderson/Ryan Mallet/Jake Locker. The kid runs well – but take a look at the amount of adjustments by the recei
vers on passing highlights (he has a few excellent throws too – but the amount of adjustments is why h’s Derek Anderson – again – another knock on him is WR being forced to adjust too much)All that said – the first throw on this highlight reel is a thing of beauty. But again – note that this is a HIGHLIGHT reel and there’s a ton of WR adjustments on it.
Now compare to Goff highlights by the same person who put together the Wentz ones.
Way more throws, way less runs (I think only 2 total) and look at the guys he’s hitting in stride compared to Wentz. (though one catch in here is a ridiculous 1 handed grab).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEGafktM5r4
If we ran Carolina’s offense – maybe you look at Wentz. But for Hue’s offense – it’s Goff all the way that fits.
Freedom!!!
I’m not so concerned abut the lack of reading a defense. Coaches, film, standing on the sidelines, and Josh McCown can teach him how to do that. And honestly, probably pretty well.
OTA’s, camp, practice reps, and again more film study can get him work on accuracy and adjustment to the speed of the game in the NFL. As would another offseason, more OTA’s, and another camp.
Again, I wouldn’t be upset if they take Goff. If he’s the better fit, cool. I just hope they get the right guy. All I’m saying is that from a highly unscientific viewpoint, and with completely untrained eyes, Wentz seems to have a bit of a higher ceiling. He could also have projectile diarrhea all over the bed, room, and household. I dunno. I like his size and frame a bit more, his arm is clearly ample, he has mobility, and he can take a snap from under center.
Again though, history pretty much tells us that one of these guys is going to fail in spectacular and amazing fashion, and being a browns fan I’m pretty much required at this point to be nothing short of convinced that that’s the one we’ll pick. I think it means that debating these guys too much is pretty much a moot point.
Agreed Bill. After reading and watching, I think I’m leaning more towards taking Wentz and the higher ceiling and having him sit behind McCown for a year. I won’t be upset if we take Goff, but the thought of him going out there day 1 terrifies me because we’ve seen them get just absolutely ruined that way.
And we’ve seen others not get ruined that way. Read between the lines on Wentz. His knocks are that he’s inaccurate and can’t read a defense.
From the combine above proving that (and the writer is in love with Wentz):
<em class=”d4pbbc-italic”>There were some throws where timing was a bit off, but Wentz was throwing to unfamiliar receivers.
Now look at these highlights. He’s Derek Anderson/Ryan Mallet/Jake Locker. The kid runs well – but take a look at the amount of adjustments by the receivers on passing highlights (he has a few excellent throws too – but the amount of adjustments is why h’s Derek Anderson – again – another knock on him is WR being forced to adjust too much)
All that said – the first throw on this highlight reel is a thing of beauty. But again – note that this is a HIGHLIGHT reel and there’s a ton of WR adjustments on it.
<iframe width=”474″ height=”267″ src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/A7oT3PpE_Rw?feature=oembed” frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen=””></iframe>
Now compare to Goff highlights by the same person who put together the Wentz ones.
Way more throws, way less runs (I think only 2 total) and look at the guys he’s hitting in stride compared to Wentz. (though one catch in here is a ridiculous 1 handed grab).
<iframe width=”474″ height=”267″ src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/cEGafktM5r4?feature=oembed” frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen=””></iframe>
If we ran Carolina’s offense – maybe you look at Wentz. But for Hue’s offense – it’s Goff all the way that fits.Try some ACTUAL film study.
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
I’m not so concerned abut the lack of reading a defense. Coaches, film, standing on the sidelines, and Josh McCown can teach him how to do that. And honestly, probably pretty well.
I agree. It can be taught. He’s supposedly a student of the game. I concede that point.
OTA’s, camp, practice reps, and again more film study can get him work on accuracy and adjustment to the speed of the game in the NFL. As would another offseason, more OTA’s, and another camp.
I disagree. If that were the case he’d have been a lot better at ball placement in college with the very guys he practiced and played with. While improvement can happen – it’s never going to be consistent.
Again, I wouldn’t be upset if they take Goff. If he’s the better fit, cool. I just hope they get the right guy.
100% agree
All I’m saying is that from a highly unscientific viewpoint, and with completely untrained eyes, Wentz seems to have a bit of a higher ceiling.
Explain “higher ceiling.” I gave you 2 highlight reels. Watch them if you didn’t. Watch accuracy. Who do you believe is farther along in that department?
So then – what makes Wentz have a higher ceiling? (It’s undebatable that Wentz is bigger with a stronger arm. That, however, doesn’t equate to a higher ceiling. If anything – it typically equates to a guy throwing late because he can get it there faster. That’s not good.)
If we were running the read option – I’d be more open to Wentz as that’s where he’s a better fit. Goff (IMO) fits Hue much better than Wentz.
He could also have projectile diarrhea all over the bed, room, and household. I dunno. I like his size and frame a bit more, his arm is clearly ample, he has mobility, and he can take a snap from under center.
It’s easier to learn to take a snap from under center than to have better ball placement. As I’ve shown before – 80%+ of Andy Dalton’s attempts were via shotgun.
Again though, history pretty much tells us that one of these guys is going to fail in spectacular and amazing fashion, and being a browns fan I’m pretty much required at this point to be nothing short of convinced that that’s the one we’ll pick. I think it means that debating these guys too much is pretty much a moot point.
Moot point or not – it’s FUN! We wouldn’t know how to react without a QB debate.
Freedom!!!
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
Explain “higher ceiling.”
I like his size and frame a bit better. Can take more of a pounding, or at least in theory anyway.
Hand size, depending on how much stock you put in that. I’m not sure how big of a deal it is, but being an inch or more larger than Goff’s certainly can’t hurt when talking about dealing with the AFC North when conditions change in the fall to cold, wet, slippery, and snowy.
He’s got a lighting fast release. Love that.
He’s got good mobility. He strikes me as more athletic.
That’s about all I got. Nothing concrete or that jumps off a page and screams at me. Playing in the Dakotas and having experience in shit weather helps too, Goff played in California in beautiful weather all the time. But that theory can be destroyed quite easily as Favre was from Mississippi and Rodgers was from Cali and both of them won rings and MVP’s in Green Bay so, that that might not really mean much of anything. Maybe it does.
Explain “higher ceiling.”
I like his size and frame a bit better. Can take more of a pounding, or at least in theory anyway.
I can appreciate that. However, that doesn’t mean potential to be a better QB. And for the record:
Goff missed zero games in 3 years starting since being a true freshman. Wentz missed 8 games last year.
Here’s missing Spring practice from a SCRIMMAGE in 2012:
Here’s an injury update from NDSU spring football, backup quarterback and Bismarck Century product Carson Wentz is out with a high ankle sprain. Craig Bohl told me today that Wentz is in a walking boot right now and may not practice the rest of the spring. Wentz injured it during the first Bison scrimmage on Saturday. He was competing with Esley Thorton to back up Brock Jensen
From Wnetz own mouth:
Q: Take me back to your high school days, what was your recruitment like?
A: My recruitment was interesting. As a junior in high school, I had some injury problems with my arm and shoulder from baseball so I didn’t play quarterback as a junior. I played a little wide receiver, linebacker, and safety. I also broke my thumb that year so I even when my arm was rehabbed, I stayed at linebacker. It was tough for me, but as a senior, I grew a little more and got bigger. I started both ways at quarterback and safety and was able to prove myself. So my recruitment was very different. Around here, NDSU (North Dakota State) and UND (North Dakota) knew I was a big, athletic kid, but not much more than that. Most of my offers came after my senior season and it was mostly Missouri Valley teams and a bunch of FCS teams. Central Michigan was the one FBS team that recruited me hard. It’s been an interesting path for me.Wentz seems to have some injury issues. Can’t find anything on Goff’s knee brace. Only thing I’ve found was him being gimpy in a game after getting rolled up on. Wunkle talks about his separated shoulder at the end of the final game of one of his years. However, he never missed a game.
Hand size, depending on how much stock you put in that. I’m not sure how big of a deal it is, but being an inch or more larger than Goff’s certainly can’t hurt when talking about dealing with the AFC North when conditions change in the fall to cold, wet, slippery, and snowy.
I can concede that. Though Romo – who has a small number of games in that weather – has played very well in it and his hands are under 9 inches.
He’s got a lighting fast release. Love that.
So does Goff
He’s got good mobility. He strikes me as more athletic.
Watch the highlight videos I posted – Goff is very athletic and has good pocket escapability.
That’s about all I got. Nothing concrete or that jumps off a page and screams at me. Playing in the Dakotas and having experience in shit weather helps too, Goff played in California in beautiful weather all the time. But that theory can be destroyed quite easily as Favre was from Mississippi and Rodgers was from Cali and both of them won rings and MVP’s in Green Bay so, that that might not really mean much of anything. Maybe it does.
I appreciate your response overall. But I don’t see how any of it equates to him having a “higher ceiling.”
Freedom!!!
I appreciate your response overall
How can you not? I’m honest and am willing to admit that at this point I have no idea what the fuck I’m even talking about.
My best argument is “fuck I dunno he’s tall and has big hands”.
That’s what this team has done to me.
Goff wore a knee brace? Didn’t know that. I guess that means that next September, it will actually fall the fuck off his body if we draft him. And I don’t mean the brace, I mean his knee. His knee Soup, will fall, the fuck, off.
Have you ever seen someone have a knee fall the fuck off? Me neither, but I sure as shit know if we draft him, it might actually happen.
Did I mix that up? Was it Wentz who wore the knee brace?
Does it matter really?
At this point unless one of these guys walks out of a goddamn forrest wearing a Gopro and lays down a body of a sasquatch AND a unicorn killed by the same sword on the same field in daylight, I refuse to accept in any way that either of them are going to do anything other than look like Brad Pitt in 12 monkeys when he ate the goddamn spider in the psych ward.
That’s where we are. Whether or not I think he can actually throw a fucking football is totally irrelevant right now, because I’m honestly just looking for a guy who won’t get tackled by the American flag, show up on TMZ in a wig, pretend as best he possibly fucking can even though we know he’s lying to be sober, not get knocked out and concussed by a Steelers linebacker and in some, any, pleading way just complete a pass in a way that makes me say “well, he might be able to do that again” next week.
The bar I am setting Soup, doesn’t even need to be set here bro. It’s literally laying on the ground, and I just want one little piece of shit to come along and say “well shit, I can move that”, and then actually do. Because it seems so simple, and so easy, but that bar is now like the fucking sword in the stone, and we’ve had every jock-strappin-dip-trippin hippie and everything in between try to budge that fucker and the only thing we’ve gotten so far is grief, angst, and mockery.
I don’t care about analytics, prognostications, or evaluations. I just want someone to pull this goddamn thing out already and do something. If it’s a chick from D3 soccer, fuck it, get her a helmet.
I don’t care, and I’m just completely dumb and numb as fuck.
Then there’s this stat I just figured out.
Since 1999 the Browns have had 10 top 10 picks. ONLY ONE OF THOSE PICKS WAS USED ON A QB.
Since 1999 the Browns have had 18 first round picks. ONLY 4 OF THOSE PICKS WAS USED ON A QB.This is a QB starved team. Looking at those stats @Soup would say it almost looks intentional.
Then there’s this stat I just figured out.
Since 1999 the Browns have had 10 top 10 picks. ONLY ONE OF THOSE PICKS WAS USED ON A QB. Since 1999 the Browns have had 18 first round picks. ONLY 4 OF THOSE PICKS WAS USED ON A QB.
This is a QB starved team. Looking at those stats @Soup would say it almost looks intentional.I was actually thinking about that the other day…how many QBs we actually picked in Round 1. Glad you did the research, because…well, I didn’t feel like it.
Truth is, Shooter isn’t far off the mark about the bar being on the ground. Problem is, the Browns have been trying to limbo under the fucker for 16 years. ONE top ten QB since ’99…and guess who that was? Tim fucking Couch.
I’m on board with whatever QB Hue wants, no matter what, but it HAS TO WORK THIS TIME! Meaning I’m not sold on any of the stats given by any person on this site (c’mon guys…knee braces? Leg size? This is how we evaluate now?), nor am I sold by the “prototypical” arguments or hand sizes (many players fall outside of those said parameters). We HAVE to get it right. Meaning someone that is going to be coached into leading this football team to more than one wildcard playoff game every 17 years. If we don’t…well…I’ll leave you with this list.
2015 Josh McCown (8) / Johnny Manziel (6) / Austin Davis (2)
2014 Brian Hoyer (13) / Johnny Manziel (2) / Connor Shaw (1)
2013 Jason Campbell (8) / Brandon Weeden (5) / Brian Hoyer (3)
2012 Brandon Weeden (15) / Thad Lewis (1)
2011 Colt McCoy (13) / Seneca Wallace (3)
2010 Colt McCoy (8) / Jake Delhomme (4) / Seneca Wallace (4)
2009 Brady Quinn (9) / Derek Anderson (7)
2008 Derek Anderson (9) / Brady Quinn (3) / Ken Dorsey (3) / Bruce Gradkowski (1)
2007 Derek Anderson (15) / Charlie Frye (1)
2006 Charlie Frye (13) / Derek Anderson (3)
2005 Trent Dilfer (11) / Charlie Frye (5)
2004 Jeff Garcia (10) / Kelly Holcomb (2) / Luke McCown (4)
2003 Kelly Holcomb (8) / Tim Couch (8)
2002 Tim Couch (14) / Kelly Holcomb (2)
2001 Tim Couch (16)
2000 Doug Pederson (8) / Tim Couch (7) / Spergon Wynn (1)
1999 Tim Couch (14) / Ty Detmer (2)
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