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Where’s the outrage?
Mary Kay Cabot reported today that the Browns declined to meet his +10M per market price. So where’s the outrage?
To me, this is a loss to a position that’s already thin, and while Scho will never be confused for Luke Keuchly, he’s still an above average starter. With all the holes on the line at safety, it makes negative sense to create one at MLB.
Anybody willing to go to bat for T.J. Carrie at 8 million damn sure better step up to the plate for Joe Schobert.
Carrie was cut without a replacement. Joe Schubert’s contract is up. See the difference?
Are you high? Serious question. Are you high?
He’s the 4th best CB on the team. His replacements are a dime a dozen.
Schobert has no replacement, as he’s the best LB on the team. In both cases, the team doesn’t want to meet the players asking price, the only difference is Carries already negotiated his.
The team flat out said they don’t want to meet his market value, meaning they don’t think he’s asking too much, they just don’t want to pay it.
Randall, Schobert.. 2 of the most important guys on our defense likely gone to free agency and Soup gives not one shit. 4th CB making more than double what he’s worth gets cut and Soup throws a fit.
Just another day here on BFT.
Carrie was cut without a replacement. Joe Schubert’s contract is up. See the difference?
Are you high? Serious question. Are you high?
He’s the 4th best CB on the team. His replacements are a dime a dozen.
Schobert has no replacement, as he’s the best LB on the team. In both cases, the team doesn’t want to meet the players asking price, the only difference is Carries already negotiated his.
The team flat out said they don’t want to meet his market value, meaning they don’t think he’s asking too much, they just don’t want to pay it.His market value? Remember Terrelle Pryors “Market value.”? The market value isn’t set on Schobert. He’s guessing he’ll get $10 million. The market will set his value and he still may end up back with us.
There were 40 linebackers above him in tackles for loss in 2019. His impact is more in coverage than anywhere else.
According to the rest of the story – they want to use that money on the offensive line.
Who knows, we will see what happens. All I was stating was one guy was outright cut. The other guys contract is up. That’s a HUGE difference. We have no idea what they offered him to stay.
Freedom!!!
The report from MKC is that the Browns aren’t willing to meet his MARKET PRICE. Not his ASKING price, his MARKET price.
Which means they fully expect he will get the money he is looking for elsewhere, which means he IS worth what he’s asking for, but the just aren’t willing to pay it.
Contrast this to T.J. Carrie, who is NOT worth what he was asking for, which is l8 millions. I today’s NFL, if you don’t have guaranteed money, you are asking the team for that money every year. Only his asking price is above his market value.
He has no offers therefore he has no market price. It’s a guessing game unless there’s been tampering.
Carrie wasn’t asking for $8m. The contract he signed had him at that value.
Apples and oranges. When free agency hits you’ll know his market price.
Now I had too much to drink last night but remember our RT who went to the Chiefs? He set his “market” price for us, we said “no” he went into FA and it turned out he overset his market price and we pulled the deal (wrong on our part) but the point is that he overvalued himself and got LESS than we offered
Freedom!!!
BTW, with Depodesta running the organization it’s 100% moneyball. Moneyball has an assigned monetary value to each position. Apperntly his position isn’t worth $10m a year according to the spreadsheet
Freedom!!!
Soup, this is a very simple concept. I’m sure you can get this if you really try. I’m not talking about asking price. That’s what you’re talking about. This is not a report about asking price. You’re thinking Joe Scho is saying “give me 12 million per” and the Browns are saying no. That’s not the report. That would be an argument about asking price. Which this is not. Mitchell Schwartz did set his asking price too high and it was above his market price. That would be a perfect example if this were an argument about asking price. But it’s not.
This is a report that the Browns are not willing to meet his Market Price. Which is north of 10 million per. True, an exact number is not known, but the Browns and Joe’s agent and the other 31 teams in the league have a pretty good idea of where that contract will fall, barring a bidding war or some team getting desperate. That could drive it up higher than expected, but it’s pretty easy to assign a floor to the deal he would sign.
And the Browns have done that and this is a report saying the Browns aren’t willing to pay him that much, so they don’t expect him to be back. If you really want to split hairs, you could specify if the report that the Browns aren’t expected to meet his EXPECTED market price, but the redundancy changes nothing.
The Browns think another team is willing to pay him more then they are. That’s the report.
Market price is absolutely the wrong term in this scenario. If the highest offer he gets in FA is $500,000 per year, then that would be his market price.
Agent: “we are worth $12m in free agency”
Browns: “you’ve earned the right to rest that theory.”
MKC is utilizing the wrong word. In this case it’s not splitting hairs or redundancy. He has no market price YET. From seeing the names on the list of highest paid I’d bet he’s in the $8m-$11m range. I think $11m is pushing it.
Market price will be the actual offers. Not the projections. If you’re livid at the Browns about this then guess what? You hate Depodesta just like @shooter and myself because this is 100% him putting values on positions via a spreadsheet
Freedom!!!
For the love of all things holy, did you read my post at all? Again, you’re talking about asking price. This is not a conversation between the Browns and Joe Scho’s agent about asking price. Get. It. Through. Your. Head. This is a one way report.
Browns: we expect Joe will get between 10-12 million per year.
Browns: we’re not willing to pay him 10 million per year, the lowest amount that we think he will get in a contract.
Browns: we’re not expecting Joe to be back with us.
Do you see the difference? These guys aren’t looking at names on a list and guessing values. Contracts are based on statistics and production. That’s how all teams and agents do it, and it’s not as big of a guessing game as it seems. MKC is not using the wrong word at all, it’s just beyond your comprehension.
Contrast this with the report about Higgins saying “the Browns want him back at the right price.” That describes the scenario you THINK is happening with Joe. The Browns want to resign Higgins and have offered him a contract in the range that they think he’s worth. Now it’s just a matter of if he can get more elsewhere.
But, they are NOT prepared to offer Joe a contract even in the range that they think he’s worth. Not what his agent thinks he’s worth, but what the Browns think he’s worth.
Really think about that. Let it soak in.
There’s nothing to soak in. Moneyball dictates position value. Not the actual player. It’s how moneyball works. They have an $X value on his position. You’re hate is directed towards Depodesta.
There is no market price set for Schobert. The market hasn’t begun yet.
Freedom!!!
There’s nothing to soak in. Moneyball dictates position value. Not the actual player. It’s how moneyball works. They have an $X value on his position. You’re hate is directed towards Depodesta.
So Joe Schobert, Luke Keuchly, and Sione Takitaki would all have the same value because they play the same position? That’s the most ludicrous argument I’ve ever heard. And this is all related to The GM, Andrew Berry. Not Depodesta, he doesn’t evaluate players and he doesn’t handle player contracts.
There is no market price set for Schobert. The market hasn’t begun yet.
I ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED THAT. They don’t have an exact number, but hey have an estimated range. Read this quote from the article:
“Browns GM Andrew Berry met with linebacker Joe Schobert’s agent, Joe Panos, in Indianapolis, and the two sides parted with the belief that Schobert will not be back with the Browns because they’re not prepared to pay him the double-digit millions he stands to make on the open market, a league source said”
What are you struggling with??? His agent believes Joe will make +10 million on the market. The Browns also believe Joe will make +10 million on the market. The Browns don’t want to pay him +10 million.
It’s not a hard concept.
There were 40 linebackers above him in tackles for loss in 2019. His impact is more in coverage than anywhere else.
That’s all you really need to read to decide if Soup knows what he’s talking about.
As to the ‘market’ argument, the market HAS been set. Teams and players hitting free agency already have a good idea of their worth because of the hundreds of deals already agreed to and on the books. The only valid argument one could make that the market hasn’t been set is that a new CBA is being created. But no one has made that argument.
“So Joe Schobert, Luke Keuchly, and Sione Takitaki would all have the same value because they play the same position?”
No, the position has a max price per moneyball. It’s what it’s predicated on. It’s the whole basis of the system.
Example I’m obviously making up:
ILB has a max value if $9m per year.
It doesn’t mean you pay anyone there $9m per year. It means you don’t go above it.
Hence their Higgins statement. “We want him back at the right price” they have a value they place on #4 WR and won’t go above it.
It’s moneyball and how it works until we finish in 4th this year and Depodesta is finally fired
Freedom!!!
“So Joe Schobert, Luke Keuchly, and Sione Takitaki would all have the same value because they play the same position?”
No, the position has a max price per moneyball. It’s what it’s predicated on. It’s the whole basis of the system.Cool story. I mean, it’s 100% BS that you made up, but still, cool story.
There were 40 linebackers above him in tackles for loss in 2019. His impact is more in coverage than anywhere else.
That’s all you really need to read to decide if Soup knows what he’s talking about.
As to the ‘market’ argument, the market HAS been set. Teams and players hitting free agency already have a good idea of their worth because of the hundreds of deals already agreed to and on the books. The only valid argument one could make that the market hasn’t been set is that a new CBA is being created. But no one has made that argument.Agree completely.
There is a huge difference in cutting TJ Carrie who was onE of the worst in the league and Schobert who is one of the better ones (not great but pretty damn good).
We could still wind up resigning him but it is going to depend on what he is offerened in free agency because you know he is going to go after the last dollar and I don’t blame him.
Good bye to an average player.
They can draft someone way better if they so choose.
People here think he is Ray Lewis or junior Seau.
Reality he is a Joe nobody who will play for another shitty team and get hurt.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
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