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Lack of trust between the Front Office and the Coaches
I think both the front office and the coaching staff are resigned to the fact that they have to work together to succeed, but I think there’s no trust between them.
Sashi & Co are used to outsmarting everyone in every phase. They’ve shown an amazing ability to generate draft picks at an unprecedented rate. What they haven’t done is use those picks correctly. We’ve heard plenty of rumblings that the coaches wanted Hooker, a true ball-hawking free safety. Instead we traded down and got Peppers, who is a strong safety and a great in-the-box asset. Even though both of them play safety, they are completely different skillsets and are not interchangeable. No one on the Browns team had even a single snap at free safety at the NFL level going into the year. We saw that glaring weakness in the preseason. Who on the team would be the best candidate to fill such a role? How about Joe Haden? I have to think that Williams was planning on using Haden extensively as the deep player, a guy wiley enough to always take correct angles and keep the play in front of him. Unfortunately Sashi ripped the carpet right out from under us by dumping Haden right before the season began. The coaches were SHOCKED. I can imagine the shouting that must have gone on behind the scenes when Sashi git rid of a player integral to the scheme we planned to run and did not do anything to replace him. So what we are left with is Peppers doing his best playing completely out of position.
The same could be said of the trade that sent away Demario Davis to the Jets in exchange for Calvin Pryor. The trade absolutely shocked the coaches. Davis was going to be a starting linebacker on our team and the winner of the Carder/Schobert competition would be backup. Now instead of Schobert learning to play MLB (a position he’s not familiar with) by playing 15 downs per game, we’re forced to throw him in the fire. Naturally he’s struggled especially in coverage. Instead of grooming him to be our MLB next season we’re tossing him in and hoping for the best.
Clearly Sashi has a thing for Kessler. He said ‘trust us’ when he drafted Kessler. He tested our trust by letting Josh McCown go just to keep the spot warm for Kessler. Notice right now that McCown is doing very well in NY while Kessler just made his way to the active roster this week for the first time, and only because Hogan is injured. How much better off would the team be with Kizer learning from watching McCown right now, and us having a win or two under our belt?Sashi is an expert at conjuring draft picks out of thin air, but his own ego won’t let him delegate the use of those draft picks to actual football people such as the head coach of his own team. If we add a GM, an actual football guy, I sincerely hope that he is able to use Sashi’s talent for playing the draft market but isn’t afraid to overrule Sashi’s questionable judgement of NFL talent.
Here’s the thing, Haslam he “final say” on hirings. No GM worth a damn will allow Sashi control. Haslam won’t be able to hire a GM until Sashi concedes control on that hire. Just another reason I think Sashi is gone week 17.
Love his trading in year 1. Year 2, not as much of a fan. His ability to judge talent is awful. Especially with reports on draft day that the FO wanted Trubisky and coaches fought to get Garrett. Sashi conceded that one and nothing else. Peppers and Kizer were 5th round NFL talents but Sashi Chaun Thomosoned them. If Sashi knew anything about football he’d have a chance to be the greatest GM in the NFL. Unfortunately right now he scouting the Pirates AA team for the upcoming draft.
Freedom!!!
If Sashi knew anything about football he’d have a chance to be the greatest GM in the NFL.
Lets focus on that statement, a statement I totally agree with. For Sashi to give up final control over the roster they’d have to agree to tear up his contract and rewrite it. It’s possibly he’d be willing to do that just to be on board when the ship does get righted. Plus, where else is he going to go right now?
If we could bring in a guy who is an amazing judge of talent and just have him navigate the disagreements between the coaches and the front office then I could see Sashi being an integral part of something awesome. If we just continue as we are we’re just throwing picks away as fast as Sashi can magic them up.Peppers and Kizer were 5th round NFL talents
I’m all for bitching and breaking down what the issues are with this trainwreck of an organization, but you can’t just go beyond the pale for no reason.
No, they were not 5th round draft picks. Maybe to you, in your evaluation of them, but to everyone else they were 1st/2nd round grades all around. By everyone.
Peppers and Kizer were 5th round NFL talents
I’m all for bitching and breaking down what the issues are with this trainwreck of an organization, but you can’t just go beyond the pale for no reason.
No, they were not 5th round draft picks. Maybe to you, in your evaluation of them, but to everyone else they were 1st/2nd round grades all around. By everyone.No they weren’t. No other actual team Gabe them 1st or 2nd round grades. No one with actual knowledge graded Kizer above 5. Big arm and big doesn’t equate to success. That’s a fact. Also it’s a fact no QB in college that got benched multiple times for sucking the season before has been successful. That’s the rub with him. He’d have continued his dscent if not for that reach. Peppers is Chaun Thompson. A freak athlete with no NFL position
Freedom!!!
If Sashi knew anything about football he’d have a chance to be the greatest GM in the NFL.
Lets focus on that statement, a statement I totally agree with. For Sashi to give up final control over the roster they’d have to agree to tear up his contract and rewrite it. It’s possibly he’d be willing to do that just to be on board when the ship does get righted. Plus, where else is he going to go right now?
If we could bring in a guy who is an amazing judge of talent and just have him navigate the disagreements between the coaches and the front office then I could see Sashi being an integral part of something awesome. If we just continue as we are we’re just throwing picks away as fast as Sashi can magic them up.The only way that happens is Jimmy saying “it’s your choice, give up roster control or get fired.”that’s what I meant by Jimmy final say
Freedom!!!
I just checked a dozen websites, I can’t find ANYTHING with Peppers graded lower than a 2nd rounder, and Kizer lower than early 3rd. I hated those picks as my as anything, but claiming everybody had them rated as 5th rounders is simply fake news.
I just checked a dozen websites, I can’t find ANYTHING with Peppers graded lower than a 2nd rounder, and Kizer lower than early 3rd. I hated those picks as my as anything, but claiming everybody had them rated as 5th rounders is simply fake news.
You’re talking Mel Kiper. Not actual good teams.
Freedom!!!
No other actual team Gabe them 1st or 2nd round grades.
Dude stop.
Every team had them rated as first or second rounders. Most had them ranked as 1st rounders. That was common knowledge all over the landscape at draft time.
I get that you hate them. I get you think they were shitty picks. I get that you feel they’re 5th round or worse talent, and I get that you feel they were highly overrated. Cool. I get it. We all get it.
But you just can’t make shit up and change history bro. Both of those guys were highly touted coming out of college and drew low 1st high 2nd round grades from every source, team, pundit, analyst, writer, broadcaster, podcaster, and message board user from here to Minsk. Quit fucking making up shit to ram into your narrative, it completely destroys your credibility and renders your points moot becuase no one wants to listen to you.
Just fucking say you thought thy sucked, you still think they suck, and the Browns fucked up by taking them. That can at least be discussed rationally. Quit standing over here trying to tell us all that your inauguration had the largest attendance in the history of the country, because it’s bullshit and it’s easy to prove wrong.
Just stop. For fucks sakes, stop.
You know who else is doing the same shit shooter? Hue Jackson. And that’s why nobody believes him when he says there’s no rift with the FO.
What am I talking about? Well, he was the one that actually said “you have to trust me” when the Browns drafted Cody Kessler. Kessler was HIS pick while higher profile guys like Connor Cook and Dak Prescott still available. Then Hue pumped him up, and talked big about him all season. But where is he know? Relegated to 3rd string of the worst qb group in the league. What gives Hue? How can we trust that?
And it’s not just Kessler. He said Kizer played “lights out” against the Bengals. We got kiled and he called it lights out. This is the guy that he benches 2 games later.
Then, he says he would’ve benched Britt if he had a warm body to play at WR, and he says Bryce Treggs will plays big role right after the Browns added him.
The point his, he is full of BS. Full of it. You honestly can’t believe him because his actions clearly don’t match with what he says. He claims to be in lockstep with the FO, but by his actions, he clearly doesn’t like the QB they drafted last year, and he doesn’t like the WRs they’ve assembled for him.
Hue sounds like everything is fine and everybody’s dedicated to gettin r done and done right, but he’s really just trying to convince passengers on the titanic that the boat isn’t sinking.
@shooter. I guarantee you that Peppers and Kizer weren’t even on some teams draft boards. Read anything on the draft and teams have guys all over the place including not on boards.
Freedom!!!
You guys arguing a strawmam with the original strawman. There is no way you are going to convince him even with links, pictures of draft board, calling every team and asking them where they had these picks….
I am actually surprised he has given them 5th round status.
Remember this is the same guy who claimed Charlie Frye has first round talent.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Quit fucking making up shit to ram into your narrative, it completely destroys your credibility and renders your points moot becuase no one wants to listen to you.
10 points to Gryffindor for correctly using the word ‘moot’ and not saying ‘it’s a mute point’. That’s right up there with people who say ‘nookyooler’ instead of nuclear in things that annoy the crap out of me.
@shooter. I guarantee you that Peppers and Kizer weren’t even on some teams draft boards.
Don’t start splitting hairs with me now.Draft grade and being on a teams board are two different things, but you’re trying to conflate them into being the same and it’s bullshit.
They weren’t on teams draft boards that didn’t need safeties or QB’s. That doesn’t have anything to do with how they were graded. No, I don’t think Kizer was on Green Bays draft board, they have Aaron Rodgers and Hundley. I doubt Peppers was on Arizonas board, they have honey badger.
It doesn’t change the fact that these guys were both highly rated by everyone coming out of college. Don’t try to change the narrative with a lame false perspective and stupid bullshittery.
@shooter. I guarantee you that Peppers and Kizer weren’t even on some teams draft boards. Read anything on the draft and teams have guys all over the place including not on boards.
I guarantee you, GUARANTEE YOU, Peppers was going to the Steelers if we hadn’t picked him, and the Bills were in talks with the Lions, with a deal in place, to move up to take Kizer at the pick right after ours. The Bills FO was IRATE that we took him. They had him rated as he best QB on their board and couldn’t believe he fell that far…..
See, I can make shit up that’s impossible to prove wrong too.
@Dawg E. Dawg I think Hue is out there on an island and doesn’t have a whole lotta choice but to go down the coachspeak rabbit hole. He thinks/says one thing and then the FO does the exact opposite and fucks him over. It’s gotta be frustrating for him.
Ya know at the beginning of this shitsuck season I was putting a lot of this on Hue. I’m changing my tune more and more as each day goes by, and honestly feel that at this point Hue Jackson and the coaching staff have almost nothing to do with this situation.
I dont blame hue for the bullshit that was thrown in his lap… But i do blame him on the sense that this team in 6 games hasn’t gotten improved in any aspect. Like nothing has improved. Even good coaches with shitty talent show some improvement.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
But i do blame him on the sense that this team in 6 games hasn’t gotten improved in any aspect.
I don’t know how we can improve. All I can see at this point is a mild improvement from the defense by Garret being back and creating more pressure on the QB up front, and maybe forcing a turnover or two, and getting an extra stop here and there. Other than that, there will be no improvement. The secondary is atrocious and most likely Peppers will continue to play incredibly out of position for the rest of the year, the Wide Receivers should all be washing windows this time next season, Crowell sucks, and the QB has zero chance of any success when we can’t run the ball and he has literally no one to throw it to.
I honestly just don’t see what can be improved upon. The only chance we have to win 1 game this season is pure, blind luck.
Hue has not been set up to succeed. The ONLY WR we have that would make another teams 53 man roster is currently on IR. We’ve got a rookie SS/LB hybrid playing FS because he’s the most athletic guy on defense. Our MLB has never played MLB. 16 of our 22 starters have 3 years or less experience in the NFL. All the qb’s on our roster have a COMBINED 2 years of NFL experience, most of that not playing. I don’t know how we can evaluate these coaches based on the shit they’ve been given. It feels like we’re playing a chess game but all our good pieces are replaced with pawns. I don’t think Kasparov could win a chess game with that setup.
If Hue was never setup to succeed then he needs to leave on his own. I would leave a job immediately if this was the case for me. If this is the case, then him leaving would be better for the team. Expose the losers in the front office.
Haslem hiring these bozos has been some of the worst decision making I have ever seen.
Btw did you guys know that it has become so bad that the browns during the jets week were selling tickets that if you bought one you got one to cedar point for free? The cedar point tickets are the same price….
What total garbage. Haslem needs to fire himself and sell the team. He is the worst ever.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Hue has not been set up to succeed. The ONLY WR we have that would make another teams 53 man roster is currently on IR. We’ve got a rookie SS/LB hybrid playing FS because he’s the most athletic guy on defense. Our MLB has never played MLB. 16 of our 22 starters have 3 years or less experience in the NFL. All the qb’s on our roster have a COMBINED 2 years of NFL experience, most of that not playing. I don’t know how we can evaluate these coaches based on the shit they’ve been given. It feels like we’re playing a chess game but all our good pieces are replaced with pawns. I don’t think Kasparov could win a chess game with that setup.
Rams:
All 3 Qbs are in yeaar 2
RB’s – Lance Dunbar is in year 6. Gurley 3, Brown 2 Davis RookieWR – 4 of their WR are two years or less (2 are rookie)
Overall their roster is SLIGHTLY older than ours. The Rams are 1st in their division at 4-2.
It’s not the youth. It’s a mix of bad picks combined with terrible coaching.
This past Sunday (as bad as he is at missing wide open cut back lanes) Crowell had 12 carries for 58 yards. That’s just shy of 5 YPC. If memory serves – Hogan threw the ball 21 times in half 1. That’s asinine.
As for playing a S out of position. That’s on Gregg Williams. Our 2 starting corners, per PFF, are stellar. The #1 and #11 ranked corner in the NFL. Look at the scheme. It’s awful. Williams is playing the safeties too far back and LBers to close so the middle is wide open constantly. Williams can put Peppers in a role he’s better suited for. He’s choosing not to. I do NOT want to hear “he doesn’t have a choice” because he does. Peppers has been nothing short of abysmal. As a coach Williams needs to note that at put him at SS and flip Kindred to FS and see if that does anything. Or bench Peppers and start Campbell. Bottom line – something needs changed and he’s unwilling to make that change.
Hue is the exact same way. As I figured prior to the season when he said “I need to run more” I figured he was full of it and completely abandon the run altogether in the game plan. Which he continues to do. Couple that with young QBs and you’re screwed.
They were given some bad ingredients and refuse to change the spices around. Put Peppers at SS and fail – at least he’s more in a potential position to suit him.
Run ground and pound and go 3 and out on 3rd and 4 or 5 because of dropped passes or bad throws – at least you are TRYING to do it right. Run an option insode the 0? You are moron. Don’t do multipkle straight hand offs inside the 10? You’re a moron.
So yeah, some ingredients are bad – but they arebn’t doing anything to correct it.
Freedom!!!
So yeah, some ingredients are bad – but they arebn’t doing anything to correct it.
Maybe you could head over to Berea and show these guys how to tweak their diets so that they can change their genetics and actually go from being suck players to freak, awesome athletes?
I’m thinking maybe if you can show Ricardo Lewis how to omit some oils and add a few more vegetables in the proper order he can go from being Ricardo Lewis to the next Julio Jones. That’d be fucking awesome.
How long does it take you to change your genetics through diet anyway? Is it like a 2 week thing or is it a long-term kind of deal? How long would it take you to turn Isiah Crowell into LaDanian Tomlinson? Is it something that can be done by week 10 or will we have to wait til next season?
Also, how long do the effects last? Once you change your diet and thus change your genetics, is it permanent or do you need to keep up with it? Personally if you catered a diet to me and turned me into Dolph Lungren I’d stick with whatever diet I was on until I died, but I can’t attest to the level of commitment of some of these players. It would probably be best if you could come up with something that would be permanent and just avoid the entire issue altogether.
Get those ingredients to the complex as soon as you can Soup, I’m already excited about Derrick Kindred being reanimated into Ronnie Lott. Fuck Yeah!!!!
So if something isn’t working you do your best to force it? Kindred is rated as an average safety. Peppers is rated at the low end of POOR. He’s not FS material. Why not try to switch?
Freedom!!!
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