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The lack of tackling is unacceptable. I understand that we are a bad team, but the tackling has been the worst ever. Don’t even care that our backfield cannot cover anyone. One thing that irritates me more than anything is lacking of trying. These guys have played football their entire lives.
It is completely unacceptable that the basic wrapping your arms around a player and hanging on to them is not happening. If Elliot runs for 8 yards on us because their is a hole….fine. But not being able to wrap a guy up is garbage.
Horton should be fired. This team has given up on Hue. They don’t even care anymore. How can anyone of these players and coaches come back in the locker room with respect for each other next year if you cannot at least try.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Moronic statement. THE lack of tackling and angles iso on the back end which we’ve yet to draft. We have a UDFA (?) starting at safety. He’s a cornerback. He’s playing safety due to injuries. We have a great coaching staff. LEAVE it alone for once.
Freedom!!!
Indisputable facts:
The Browns defense is not NFL caliber this season. We’ve allowed an average of 30.3 points against us so far this season. The best defensive outing was when we only allowed 25 points by the Ravens.Firing the DC is definitely NOT off the table. But I don’t think it does anything about the hole we’re in.
Indisputable facts: The Browns defense is not NFL caliber this season. We’ve allowed an average of 30.3 points against us so far this season. The best defensive outing was when we only allowed 25 points by the Ravens.
Firing the DC is definitely NOT off the table. But I don’t think it does anything about the hole we’re in.Scenario – you play defense for the Browns. It is clear that most journalist picked your team to win between 0-2 games. Why would you try hard when lack of seriousness and professionalism currently exists in this program. Why would you risk getting hurt as everyone knows this team will be terrible.
Coaches need to start to get fired. Every player and coach on this team is playing for an invite to 2017. No other program would except this pathetic team. Only cleveland fans accept this team. The only reason Soup is being a dumb ass and arguing for keeping the coaches is because he has talked himself in to the belief these guys will turn it around.
Horton should be fired on Monday. Don’t care who is on the field – not my problem. It is the Cleveland Browns problem and they better start to figure it out.
35,000 – 40,000 fans at the stadium today were rooting for the cowboys. If they are not going to take this serious, then just move the team and quit draining the city of cleveland.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Moronic statement. THE lack of tackling and angles iso on the back end which we’ve yet to draft. We have a UDFA (?) starting at safety. He’s a cornerback. He’s playing safety due to injuries. We have a great coaching staff. LEAVE it alone for once.
Nope – quit making excuses. Joe Haden was scorched on coverage. Number 59 – sorry don’t know his name, but was burnt so bad on a pathetic block by witten. no rush – zero rush. no one is responsible for qb on run. this team is soooooooo bad. even mangini coached up bad players. time to clean house.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Fair or not (it’s not), someone will likely get fired as a scapegoat for this season. As an offensive-minded coach, Hue will likely let that fall on the defense.
If Elliot runs for 8 yards on us because their is a hole….fine. But not being able to wrap a guy up is garbage.
To be fair, Elliot did this all through college, wrecked a Nick Saban led defense for a National Championship, and is leading the NFL in rushing as a rookie and is on pace to break Dickerson’s record.
It’s not by accident, and it’s not just because of the holes. This dude is a fucking MONSTER.
No one can tackle him man. No one.
You can’t call for a defensive coaches head when the defensive coach has only 4 or 5 players that are worth a shit.
And at best, we have 4. Maybe 5.
Ogbah, Kirksey, Nassib, Haden (sometimes) and Shelton (sometimes) combining for 1, and now Collins.
That’s it.
That……..is…….it.
That means on any given play, 6 to 7 of the players on defense are completely worthless. There are prominent, featured players/defenders on this team right now that if they were in Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cinci, Houston, Buffalo, New England, Carolina, Kansas City, Philedelphia, Minnesota, Denver or Seattle that would struggle to even make the practice squad.
But they’re STARTING here.
Starting, and expected to not only go play, but make plays, only because the guys behind THEM are even WORSE.
I honestly don’t care WHO is coaching them, it doesn’t matter, they suck. No one can fix that dude.
No one.
And yes, it really is that bad.
You can’t play defense when you have 5 players. You just can’t. And you can’t blame the coach for that.
I told you all before the season even started 0-16. I told you what to expect. Now that we’re actually living through it, the few remaining are getting upset about it.
Why?
Really at this point, why? Why be upset now? THIS, is exactly how it was going to go. It was going to get THIS bad, before we get anything turned around. Who didn’t see this coming? Did you not see the roster? Were you really THAT optimistic about it?
That’s not Hortons fault dude, that’s yours.
Scenario – you play defense for the Browns. It is clear that most journalist picked your team to win between 0-2 games. Why would you try hard when lack of seriousness and professionalism currently exists in this program
I don’t know that there’s a lack of seriousness or professionalism. I think there’s a lack of talent which is totally different. Sure in the 4th quarter when we’re down 25 points some guys will pack it up. I think we have a team full of Rudy’s, which means we suck.
The reason I’m not (yet) advocating for a DC change is that I think the execution is terrible. I watch us blitz 5 and 6 guys and still not get any pressure at all. I see LB’s out of position. I see guys who can’t tackle. I see single high safeties who abandon their coverage on every play action fake leaving the CB’s all alone on an island. Those are all execution problems.
Also if you fire Horton you have:
Nassib
Ogbah
Kindred
Other bad safety UDFA guy
SchobertAll learning their 2nd scheme in 2 years.
Not to mention Shelton who’s having great success would be having to learn his 3rd in 3 years. KIrksey who’s having success would be on his 3rd in 4 years and just go down the line.
Enough going backwards. Draft back end defense early in the draft. AND if we can land a prime C as well we will go ahead leaps and bounds.
Freedom!!!
Enough making excuses for lack of talent. It has been the excuse of this program for 17 years. These guys get very large pay checks. Lack of tackling is very poor. That is coaching. You can position guys all day long, but if you do not tackle then the position does not matter.
We do not have a team full of Rudy’s – Rudy gave heart and passion to play Notre Dame football. These guys are just earning a paycheck and not trying to get hurt.
To be frank, I am sick of hearing we have 5-6 good player. We have NFL players who are under performing. Good coaches coach up players. That is not happening in the slightest here. Instead it is the other way around.
That game yesterday was 100% on the coaches. Players didn’t hustle. Players didn’t care. It was garbage. Pat Shurmur would have at least 2 wins by now. Stop making excuses for poor coaching.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
So you don’t want to hear that players aren’t good enough – yet during the game the announcers brought up that our #1 picks from 2010 (?)-2014(?) only 2 are still in the NFL and neighter really play. Yeah, let’s blame the current regime for that….
Freedom!!!
Enough making excuses for lack of talent. It has been the excuse of this program for 17 years. These guys get very large pay checks. Lack of tackling is very poor. That is coaching. You can position guys all day long, but if you do not tackle then the position does not matter.
We do not have a team full of Rudy’s – Rudy gave heart and passion to play Notre Dame football. These guys are just earning a paycheck and not trying to get hurt.I’m not making excuses for the lack of talent, I’m pointing out the lack of talent. As of right now I don’t think coaching is the main issue, at least not enough that we should fire our DC, but I am totally open to that. I’m not disagreeing with you @dude, I’m just not there yet.
You guys all know that in most situations I’m against firing a coach mid-season. It makes it very difficult to hire other coaches and just puts someone else in charge of running the gameplan the fired coach already installed. It’s not usually productive. When Pat Shurmer was the coach, I absolutely wanted him shitcanned asap, but he was so unbelievably bad that we could have done better by calling plays randomly. He was making the team worse by his very presence. I don’t think that Horton is there yet.
I am not for firing Hue Jackson right now. The thread is to fire Ray Horton. He has a job every week to get these guys ready and he has failed at it. Soup I am not arguing with you about the poor draft picks. I agree with you. But I feel like there needs to be a shake up somewhere and make these guys realize they are not doing their jobs. Because simply, they are not.
Besides Chudzinski and Mangini, these coaches have failed. I didn’t like Mangini, but I will recognize that he got guys to play hard for him. Chud has better talent.
Soup I want you to understand something. We could have Dez Bryant, Michael Crabtree, and Julio Jones as our wide outs. We know these guys are good players. But what make them different is there effort on the field. These guys made sometimes be arrogant, but they perform and it means something to them. Besides Prior, I see guys giving up on routes. I see terrible wide out blocking. Defense as far as I am concern – no one should have a job going into next year. They are all not trying out there. Garbage.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
We absolutely cannot fire any coaches right now. We shouldn’t even fire them if we go 0-16. Horton is a proven commodity in the NFL who had the CLE defense ranked 9th when he was here in 2013 and 12th or better for half of his career. The coaching is not the variable, the players are.
As a few of you know from Facebook, my younger brother is a strength and conditioning coach for the University of Miami. He will tell you that the reason recruiting (or the draft) is so important, even at his level, is because the athletes have already received the coaching that is going to determine who they are as a player by the time they reach him. It makes sense, why waste time on pre-draft analysis if you can just forge anyone into the player you want them to be based on their talent alone? These are grown men, and as my little brother will tell you, they either have “it” or they don’t. You can’t shine shit. This also explains why a coach like Belichick would trade a player like Collins to the Browns for a compensatory pick instead of “coaching him up” (and no one doubts Belichick’s coaching ability).
Our defensive players are in the first year of learning a new scheme. Many of them (Meder, Shelton, Cooper, Wright, Nassib, Holmes, Schobert, Alexander, Ogbah, Howard, Boddy-Calhoun, Campbell, Kindred, Reynolds II – 14 of our 24 defenders) are in their first or second seasons in the NFL, and those who are in their second year of the NFL are in their first year of Ray Horton’s defense. The game simply hasn’t even started slowing down for most of these guys yet. They’re still thinking about what they’re supposed to be doing instead of just being able to do it. That’s not an excuse, that’s a fact.
Firing Horton would only perpetuate the cycle of confusion and increase the time required for each player to become proficient, especially if we continue to switch back and forth between the 3-4 and 4-3 (which we have done since the time of Crennel). Each system utilizes different concepts and requires a different personnel type. Bouncing back and forth between the two systems has depleted the talent needed to run either efficiently, and what you end up with is the product you see on the field today. It is time to stop the madness. Knee jerk reactions are not the key to sustained success.
Overall I remain optimistic about the future prospects of this team. There are some key positions that still need to be addressed, but if the early indications from the last draft are indicative of what we can expect in the future, it appears as if the Browns FO will be able to build through the draft and free agency. Unlike Soup, I don’t believe that Kessler is the answer, but I don’t believe that he might not be just yet either. I’m not in love with the current QB class, though I’m willing to see where the draft process leads us. At some point, we need a franchise QB. Kessler may be that guy (all the love in the world for the kid, he has just as much heart as McCown), but I don’t see him as anything more than a quality back up.
While I would prefer to see us take DE Myles Garret from Texas A&M, I suspect the FO will roll the dice on Deshone Kizer if we end up with the number 1 overall pick (assuming he declares). He has the size, arm talent and athletic ability teams in the AFC North covet. While I’d like the Kizer pick a lot more if he played in a pro style offense, you can’t overlook the fact that fewer college teams (focused on winning their own championships instead of just being a training ground for the NFL) run pro style offenses. More and more spread QBs are having success in the NFL as that worm turns.
Bottom line is this, don’t fire Horton. He’s proven he’s a good coach with multiple organizations and constantly changing schemes has proven counter productive (not to mention that Cleveland’s recent hiring/firing history makes us a very unattractive destination for any coach that is even slightly in demand). If the defense still looks like this after the end of the 2018-2019 season, you discuss firing him and hiring another 3-4 DC. Not a moment sooner.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0The only place I disagree is on Kizer. These guys aren’t going to roll the dice. They proved it by passing on Wentz knwing he’s not a top tier talent. they knew they’d take flack for it and didn’t care. Slowly he’s proving them right.
Kizer is awful. They aren’t into “size” as a measurement like most people with QB’s. (Hence why many on here loved Wentz, Mallet, Mettenberger, etc.) All size related. They need to prove it on the field which he doesn’t do.
I see them methodically making the team better by choosing BPA at a position of need rather than a reach ala Weeden and the Drunk.
Freedom!!!
Enough making excuses for lack of talent.
It’s not an excuse. It’s just reality. As I mentioned, we have players on this team that are starting right now that would absolutely struggle to even make top tier teams practice squads. It’s not an excuse, it’s an indictment.
These guys get very large pay checks.
Compared to us maybe, but compared to the rest of the league, no, no they don’t. They makes shit relative to their peers. Ya know why?
Because they have no talent.
Lack of tackling is very poor. That is coaching. You can position guys all day long, but if you do not tackle then the position does not matter.
I disagree. I agree that the tackling is poor, but I disagree as to why. They have no talent. They suck. They are very poor at doing their jobs. That…….is why they are tackling poorly. Also, you just kind of contradicted yourself. Yes, if the coaches put the players where they need to be, but the player doesn’t execute, how is that on the coach? The answer is it’s not. If the coaches teach how to tackle, and then these guys go out and “olay” shit all day long, I mean, what are the coaches supposed to do? Call a do-over and then go make the play themselves? Of course it negates the positioning when the player doesn’t execute. That’s why it’s ON THE PLAYER, not the coach.
The talent level is shit. Pure, total, unfiltered shit. That’s crippling to a coach and his abilities.
I understand your level of frustration, but the reality here is there isn’t much at all that can be done other than getting better players.
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