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I have stated from day one along with many posters here Manziel was a terrible pick. The few times he played last year, it was total garbage. He looked like a deer in headlights. I didn’t like drafting Manziel purely on his personality and threat of being a cancer in the locker room and alienating me as a fan. I didn’t feel like he was NFL caliber and he would just be another number to the endless list of garbage picks we have year in and out.
With that being said, here are his stats for the year:
This was his 3rd start this year. I feel like we have seen a completely different Manziel than what we saw last year. A guy who seems like he at times has zip on his throws and is making some better decisions. He is extending plays like he did in college and really only had two bad decisions in doing so yesterday.
Manziel as expected has trouble fumbling the ball. I feel like he has run the ball pretty well when had to, but he still gets the ball knocked out of his hands all the time in the backfield.
I feel Manziel deserves a full season next year bearing any off the field incidents. Professionally, I think he played night and day better than the year before. The offense has actually run relatively smooth with him when he has started the game – this means full game plan has been given to Manziel for the week.
Overall, I think the team played better yesterday because Haslem told them all they were playing for their jobs for next year. I think he told them all there will be many changes and this culture of losing and not caring is not acceptable.
Does anyone else think he deserves another year?
Hue Jackson is a loser.
I’m with you. The man got drafted and I thought we wasted another pick. All of his off-field antics aside, I’m pleasantly finding out that I was wrong…and for him to exceed expectations the way he has been, coupled with a depleted/low expectation WR room…
Well, let’s just say I hope he goes on shocking me. The kid can play football, and he’s passionate about it.
P.S. @Dawgsoldier Colt McCoy my ass.
Another thought on this topic, when in the last 16 years can we say a QB actually got better in his second year. Almost every QB we have had has regressed and basically played himself out of a job.
If Pettine is the final decision maker on who plays on Sunday, then we have a real big problem. Because the fact of the matter is we all knew this team wasn’t going to be good at the beginning of the season and not to play our young guys and to give them experience, really set us back. Not all draft picks work out and it is tough to draft great talent. But we must see what we have. Gilbert should be on the field all the time by now. So should Mingo. And Erving also even if he is playing poor.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Pettine’s job is to go into every game and find a way to win it. He’s not an idiot. He knows that this job isn’t gonna last forever and he is building a resume. If you expect him to start young kids to help out the next head coach and hurt himself you’re being ridiculous. If you were the HC with a 3-9 record would you start Erving? Would you start Gilbert? I hope not. This team has enough going against it without the HC handicapping himself.
With that said as fans hell yeah we want to see these young guys. The problem is that most of these young guys are not earning a shot at all. Frankly they suck. If Gilbert were not a 1st round pick he wouldn’t be on the team at all. He’s struggling to make the active roster and when he does it’s just special teams. Same with Mingo, although he’s good enough to play spot duty on defense he’s not good enough to start in the NFL. IMO those guys don’t deserve anything. If we hadn’t drafted them with top 10 picks you wouldn’t even know their names. Mingo especially has had more than enough chances.
Manziel really took an amazing step forward in the game vs the 49ers. He made one mental error throwing late over the middle (and then bashed his head in with a computer). Other than that he was not looking to scramble at all. He was looking to extend plays. He had a couple throws that were terrible and he would like back, but as a whole he completed 66% of his passes. Granted all this comes against the 49er’s who played like a JV squad. I want to see him produce against a real NFL defense and he’ll have every chance to do it.
And then we can trade him to Dallas for a 1st round pick because I think he’ll fall right off the wagon again.
As soon as he said “this isn’t freaking A&M” when discussing that interception, I was impressed. He was PISSED. I doubt we see that kind of play again from him.
Begrudgingly, I was impressed in the Pitt game. This game helped fortify those thoughts. Can he play? Yeah, he can. Does he need improvement? Of course. This is why I was and still am pissed over the fact that he hasn’t been playing until now.
Yes, the Niners and Titans suck. I get it. But Pittsburgh doesn’t. Neither do the Chiefs or the Seahawks, so we’ll learn alot more in the final 3 weeks.
You can dislike him all you want, but if you’re not rooting for him at this point, there’s something wrong with you and you’re just being a Bitter Billy (right, Soup?).
We HAVE TO solve this QB problem here in Cleveland and shut the revolving door. If this kid can actually come in here and do it, then high fives all around and let’s get this ship out of the fucking dock already.
He gets a solid B for yesterday. Had the pick been on 4th down he’d have gotten an A. But with a pass that mentally stupid his highest grade can be a B. I was highly impressed yesterday.
I don’t care at this point that it was against a terrible team. A good QB won’t struggle against garbage. He didn’t struggle.
We’ll see the next 3 weeks his potential. I still draft QB in round 1. Look at the Cowboys with Aikman and Walsh in the same year.
Get this solved
Freedom!!!
@Iceman – I disagree to an extent. Pettine signed up for a job that he knew what he was getting into. A traditionally very bad team. He should have known that building the team for the future should be the plan. It wasn’t going to turn over night with this team and that should have been discussed in his interview.
The response is going to be that he will lose his job and good luck trying to find another job afterwards. If he couldn’t tell some of these guys were not going to be in his future, then shame on who pulled the trigger on hiring him in the first place. Why even keep our first round picks if we aren’t going to play them. I understand not all will pan out, but based on their practice play doesn’t necessarily mean they shouldn’t get in the game. The best way of learning is with real life game experience.
@to the rest, I hope Manziel does play well the rest of the season with a game plan. Maybe the fame will get to his head and not the cocaine and we will have a champion on the field some day.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Hey Soup you ever gonna answer my question from the other thread, or should I just mark this one down in the “I absolutely eviscerated Soup in overwhelmingly dominant fashion and made him look like a rambling, stark raving lunatic of epic proportions” column?
There’s alotta marks in that column by the way, just wanted to know if I should go ahead and carve another one into immortality.
Let’s play the hypothetical game. Let’s just say that Johnny goes out here and destroys the next 3 teams, gets us 3 wins, and does so in convincing fashion.
Are we still drafting a QB in round 1?
If your answer is yes, why?
Hey Soup you ever gonna answer my question from the other thread, or should I just mark this one down in the “I absolutely eviscerated Soup in overwhelmingly dominant fashion and made him look like a rambling, stark raving lunatic of epic proportions” column?
There’s alotta marks in that column by the way, just wanted to know if I should go ahead and carve another one into immortality.Haven’t had any research time. 12 month old at home.
Freedom!!!
Let’s play the hypothetical game. Let’s just say that Johnny goes out here and destroys the next 3 teams, gets us 3 wins, and does so in convincing fashion.
Are we still drafting a QB in round 1?
If your answer is yes, why?Yes. Because he’s too much of a wild card. And can still go either way. I pull a Cowboys (Aikman and Walsh) and let the 2 first rounders duke it out. If Manziel continues to hold down and crush it for 2 more years, extend him and trade the groomed 1st rounder.
Freedom!!!
Haven’t had any research time.
You don’t need any, I provided literally everything needed, both in print and in video form. Links included!
There’s always concession. A simple “look, I was wrong and I admit it. I was just making shit up to pile on the hate because I hate him, and if I hate him, I think you all should hate him too. Shooter was completely right” would do fine.
It would save you just like, a TON of time. You can do that while HOLDING the baby. You don’t even have to type the sentence, I did it for you. Copy/paste. Click Click. 1 hand, 10 seconds, the baby would never even know.
Yes. Because he’s too much of a wild card. And can still go either way. I pull a Cowboys (Aikman and Walsh) and let the 2 first rounders duke it out.
So, one way or another, we’re goin to completely waste a 1st round draft pick then, and what you’re saying here is, you’re totally okay with that?
Anyone else have an issue with that line of thinking? Because I sure as fuck do. Pass on Bosa to draft a QB. QB loses battle to Johnny. Johnny then goes on to become a franchise QB. losing 1st round QB gets traded 3 years later for 3rd round pick. Browns don’t have Bosa.
Pardon me but, that seems dumb as fuck to me. If Johnny gives it a good go here these last few games, you hand him the keys and give him a solid year or two. If he shines, sweeeeeet. If he doesn’t, we’ll be picking in the top 5, and can then go get a 1st round QB.
PLUS WE’LL HAVE BOSA!!!!!!
(Bosa is being used for hypothetical purposes, you can easily call him “Draftee A” if it suits your purposes. It just as a point of reference, not an endorsement of Bosa).
Here’s where your line of thinking fails. He’d go for way more than a 3rd. You’d get a 1st out of him.
Freedom!!!
Haven’t had any research time. 12 month old at home.
SOUP 12 months = 1 year moron. /joking
hope that is going well for you.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Let’s play the hypothetical game. Let’s just say that Johnny goes out here and destroys the next 3 teams, gets us 3 wins, and does so in convincing fashion.
Are we still drafting a QB in round 1?
If your answer is yes, why?This is the discussion this team needs to have during the offseason. If for some reason, he does win the last games of the season then there needs to be 2 approaches.
1) We go with Johnny from day 1 and he is a starting QB. We draft based on talent and needs. We definitely need a backup QB, so we will draft a backup QB – not a guy who is planned to be the starter
OR
2) We put Manziel on the trading block. if he takes a trashy team like the Browns and puts on a performance that shows he can win, he may be worth a first or second round pick to someone. Elite QB’s have been basically non-existent this year. Finding good backups has been just as big of a challenge.
This team is really bad. If he wins out, it will be pretty impressive. It will cause the entire coaching staff to be fired for certain.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
If we have the number 1 pick, we better not fuck up and draft anyone but Bosa.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Haven’t had any research time.
You don’t need any, I provided literally everything needed, both in print and in video form. Links included!
There’s always concession. A simple “look, I was wrong and I admit it. I was just making shit up to pile on the hate because I hate him, and if I hate him, I think you all should hate him too. Shooter was completely right” would do fine.
It would save you just like, a TON of time. You can do that while HOLDING the baby. You don’t even have to type the sentence, I did it for you. Copy/paste. Click Click. 1 hand, 10 seconds, the baby would never even know.Your video shows 16 passes. That leaves 25 unseen. I want to find all 41. Game log is meaningless as its someone else’s take. When I see all 41 again I’ll concede if I’m wrong.
Freedom!!!
Game log is meaningless as its someone else’s take.
WHAT???!!!! Are you insane, high, or in a death-spiral combination of both? It’s the freaking box score! It’s not a fucking opinion, it’s factual documentation of what the hell actually happened.
If you read the box score of a baseball game and see that Lonnie Chisenhall struck out on a 3-2 pitch for a called strike 3 in the 6th inning do you say “well, that was just someone else’s take? Are you fucking serious here man?
Dude, seriously. Stop. It’s now officially time to stop. 5 catches by the RB’s. 5. Out of 33. Just stop typing.
He’d go for way more than a 3rd. You’d get a 1st out of him.
Now whose using opinion for the purposes of argument now? How can you possibly make that claim on anything other than speculation?
You think Washington is gonna get a 1st rounder for RG3? You think the Browns would get a 1st rounder for Johnny?
You’re still stuck in this “take a QB just to take one” mode and it’s lunacy. If Johnny shows even a glimmer of hope to be able to do this job, you give it to him next year and live or die by it and select a needed player at another position in the draft this year. If Johnny succeeds, winner winner chicken dinner. If he doesn’t, we’re taking a QB in the top 5 the following year. Either way, a new QB is coming to Cleveland via a 1st round pick. The only difference is if it’s the latter and Johnny sucks, we still have the impact player taken this year. If we do it your way, we don’t.
It’s a good thing you don’t have a job in Berea. I’d also love to play you in a game of chess, your logic is so flawed that the outcome would be embarrassing and you’d be just sitting there going “wait, what just happened”?
In the scenerio I provided, the 1st round QB loses out to Johnny and never plays. I RG3 was behind a 1st round pick and never played – yes – he would’ve garnered a 1st round pick guaranteed. He played and failed so no, he won’t get a 1st. There’s a major difference.
If my logic is flawed then so is Jimmy Johnson for taking 2 1st round QBS in Aikman and Walsh. I’ll take that flawed logic and rings over Tannehill still not in the playoff hunt.
Freedom!!!
Why is ANYONE bringing up a “possible scenario” where Johnny leads the Browns to wins over ANY of the next three opponents? You do realize they’re playing at Seattle, at KC and finally home against Pittsburgh – right? Hey Scooter, did you wake up one morning and decide to swallow a bottle of stupid pills before having breakfast? I dare ANYONE to lay out a reasonable scenario where the Browns win ONE of these three remaining games . . . let alone three. Poor Scooter . . . I used to have a lot of respect for you. Now I see you for what you really are – a drama queen with your panties constantly in a twist and a certifiable nut job to boot. We can officially put you in the same class as the Kardashians and Bruce Jenner. Congratulations, Scooter. You’ve earned it.
Am I going mad, or did the word THINK escape your lips? You were not hired for your brains, you hippopotamic landmass!
Hey Bill, how are ya?
Not really sure what prompted that attack. Maybe you mixed prescription medication with liquor. Maybe you have an infection in your vagina and it’s really rubing you the wrong way, literally. Maybe you’re just pissed because you’re old and know that you’re going to be dying soon. I honestly have no clue. But out of respect to you, I’ll just lob a soft “fuck you Bill” your way and ask that instead of attacking me, you might actually attempt to debate/criticize some of my actual football takes. Which, you did none of.
I’ll show you how to do it.
Why is ANYONE bringing up a “possible scenario” where Johnny leads the Browns to wins over ANY of the next three opponents?
Well, for a number of reasons. Because the Browns suck and there’s nothing else better to do. Because I can. Because asking what-if questions and debating what-if answers is fun and pretty much what we do here and have done for, oh, about 15 years now. Because hypothetical situations from time to time actually become reality. But mostly Bill, because it’s just fun to dream. It’s kind of like when you daydream about being a millionaire and how cool it would be.
That’s why.
You do realize they’re playing at Seattle, at KC and finally home against Pittsburgh – right?
Yes I’m, I’m aware of that.
Hey Scooter, did you wake up one morning and decide to swallow a bottle of stupid pills before having breakfast?
No, but I did skip breakfast altogether, perhaps that had something to do with it.
I dare ANYONE to lay out a reasonable scenario where the Browns win ONE of these three remaining games . . . let alone three.
Just 1? Okay, here’s one: We score more points than the other team.
There’s literally hundreds of possible scenarios that I can come up with, but this is the simplest one. If we do it 3 times, then that gives us 3 wins.
I used to have a lot of respect for you. Now I see you for what you really are – a drama queen with your panties constantly in a twist and a certifiable nut job to boot.
I’m not so much into drama. And I don’t wear panties (well, that’s not entirely true, but that’s a different discussion for a different forum and I’d need Mrs. Shooter’s permission before I get into details about that. Plus I don’t really think anyone wants to hear it anyway). I am pretty fuckin’ crazy though, so I’ll plead guilty to the certifiable nutjob accusation.
Sorry to lose your respect. I’ll be dealing with it in my barren field where I grow all my fucks to give.
We can officially put you in the same class as the Kardashians and Bruce Jenner.
I have to be honest, I have no idea how to even respond to that. And it’s Kaitlyn now Bill, some sensitivity here, please.
Bill,
The Chiefs game is extremely winnable. They are playing out their ass right now. They are on back ups to back ups RB wise. Benjamin returns 2 punts for TDS and we win 14-10. There’s your scenerio. Do I believe they’ll win any of the 3 left? No. Can they? Yes, that’s why they play the games.
Wilson could get a concussion on play 1 (which would tick me off because he’s my fantasy QB). There’s so many things that can happen.
Freedom!!!
In Bill’s defense, your ages are the same if you are measuring “aged livers” 🙂
KC is a winnable game. Also, you nailed it, nothing else to talk about. We have a good group of people here. We have been making hypothetical’s with QBs and draft pics for way too long.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
What about the other hypothetical? What if the last 3 games we play as badly as we did most of the rest of the season? What if Manziel isn’t terrible but isn’t great, averaging something like 240 yards 1 TD and 1 turnover a game? Can we please trade him then?
What about the other hypothetical? What if the last 3 games we play as badly as we did most of the rest of the season? What if Manziel isn’t terrible but isn’t great, averaging something like 240 yards 1 TD and 1 turnover a game? Can we please trade him then?
That is not a hypothetical, that is reality.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
What if Manziel isn’t terrible but isn’t great, averaging something like 240 yards 1 TD and 1 turnover a game?
If that’s the case then whether or not to draft a QB in round 1 answers itself.
He wasn’t a one-man wrecking crew, but Johnny played well enough yesterday, in my opinion. Along with Johnson and Barnidge, he was one of the three players on our offense who looked like they belonged on the field.
He’s not abandoning the pocket before he has to (although he was forced to do so often enough), and appears to keep his eyes downfield while scrambling.
If our receivers don’t take the bricks out of their gloves, he’s going to understandably develop a serious case of “stare down Gary Barnidge” these last couple of games.
It’s the same story as every other young QB we’ve had here in Cleveland.
There’s no ability for a QB to ever develop here because 1) he’s under constant duress 2) he has an at-best inconsistent/non-existent running game and 3) few if any weapons to throw the ball to. Not to mention horrid defensive play which contributes to the offense being predictable and 1 dimensional.
It’s the same script on how to destroy a QB that we’ve seen repeatedly time after time after time with this team. All things considered, I thought Manziel played pretty well again. Constantly being flushed from the pocket, stone hand receivers, poor rushing attack, no help from the defense……..who can produce, play well, or win in that situation? Plus he’s already on his 2nd offense in 2 years, and most likely will be on 3 starting next year. For contrast, Russel Wilson has been running the same offense since he came into the league. He had Marshawn Lynch. He had the leagues best defense. Now, in his 4th year in the league, he’s reached a level of play where HE can make guys like Dough Baldwin and Tyler Locket look and play good. QB’s in Cleveland, not just Johnny but all of them, have never had that opportunity or have been presented with the same circumstances.
This team can go right on ahead and draft a QB in the 1st round again in the draft next year, but the results will be absolutely identical unless all of these factors get corrected.
Draft him, trot him out, watch him get killed, sit him down.
Repeat, leaving a path of unimaginable destruction in the wake.
It’s insane. Truly, completely, insane. There is no other word to use to describe it any better, it’s literally the exact definition of the word.
Johnny at best IMO is back up in the NFL. Personally I’d like Cook from MSU as he is the most pro ready and well schooled QB in the class.
The Browns also need to ether develop Pryor and Bring Back Gordon or draft some BIG WR’s for red zone threats. Also a slobber knocker of a FB wouldn’t hurt ether to address red zone woes.
Oh and I agree with my crusty curmudgeonly compadre 100%. Well said Wunkle!
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There should be some WWF type rule, where if you take out a ref there’s no penalties for the rest of the play.
But yeah, @Shooter, I’m on the same page as you. There’s not an Andrew Luck coming out this year, so let’s fix the rest of the team. Build a strong defense and a solid set of skill players on offense. Draft a pass rusher or a #1 WR. If Johnny’s not the guy, then he’s not the guy, but let’s at least make sure the next guy can walk in set up for success.
There’s not an Andrew Luck coming out this year, so let’s fix the rest of the team. Build a strong defense and a solid set of skill players on offense. Draft a pass rusher or a #1 WR. If Johnny’s not the guy, then he’s not the guy, but let’s at least make sure the next guy can walk in set up for success.
Same page? Dude we’re on the same letter in the same sentence of the same paragraph. Completely agree with all of this.
This is why I have been so staunchly against the “take a QB just to take him” line of thinking. If QB was our biggest area of need, of course, I’m down with using the pick on one. But since QB play is down the ladder behind pass rusher, WR, O-line,RB, and D-line, why waste the pick on that position?
let’s at least make sure the next guy can walk in set up for success.
EXACTLY!!!
We’re not the broncos saying “well, we’ve got everything we need, all we need is a QB, let’s go get Peyton”. We aren’t the Steelers when they drafted Ben or the Saints when they acquired Brees. All those teams were only a QB away and all went to the Superbowl when they got him because of the foundation that was built. Our foundation is hastily poured concrete with no rebar and it’s siting on swamp land. We could build a mansion on it that would make Trump blush but it won’t matter because it’ll be sunk into the ground in a year. I’m kind of sick of seeing that process play out here. It failed with Couch, failed with Frye, failed with Quinn, failed with Weeden and is failing with Johnny. Anyone who thinks that the next guy that comes in here won’t fail if given the same set of circumstances is a fool and lying to themselves, not to mention blind and most likely stupid because he absolutely will.
Give me Joey Bosa. Give me the #1 WR in the draft. Give me a Guard. Give me some foundation, not a pretty house to sink into the ground.
McCown. Don’t forget him. He has played well enough to earn another year starting but we have him as a backup.
@ice definitely. He’s the first time we’ve ever been successful in our bi-annual efforts to find a “game managing veteran who can run the offense”…Detmer/Pederson/Dilfer/Dorsey/Delhomme/Wallace/Campbell. Yuck.
We’re picking in the top 3. We cannot make a mistake with this pick. We can’t afford to do anything but pick the absolute best player available at any position. If there’s a can’t miss left tackle, grab him. If there’s an awesome CB, take him. If it’s a QB, grab him.
We cannot sacrifice talent for position. In other words we can’t reach for a guy just because he’s a QB. We have to shop based solely on talent.
Honestly we need a pass rusher BAD.
Yes. And also, given the complete crap we’re throwing out as a front seven, we should draft a pass rusher and build our system around him. If he’s more of a 4-3 end, that’s what we go with. No trying to fill square holes with round pieces. Draft a badass, put him in his comfort zone, and let him go to work. No changing positions, no “stay off the field until you learn coverage”. He’s pinning his ears back and rushing the QB 75% of the time.
I’d be fine with a WR as well. An LT as Joe’s heir apparent I wouldn’t complain about, but the fact that we’ve proven can win 4 games per season on a regular basis while getting All-Pro caliber play from left tackle and center has me rethinking the amount of value one gets from “best in the league” versus “good enough as a unit” from an offensive line.
McCown has earned another year? Are you guys watching the same football as I am. McCown has 2 wins in 2 years. Yes, he has had injuries just like every fucking qb we have. But he put himself in those situations many of times. First series this year he got smokes on the goal line. He is not a good qb. You guys are better than this. There is a reason a good team wont even sign him as a backup. He is garbage. Manziel has 2 wins this year. IMO, Manziel is soooo much better than McCown. Manziel sucks too….but he is much better than McCown.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
McCown wasn’t the problem bro.
He wasn’t the problem in Tampa.
I don’t know if I’d go as far as to say “earned another year”, but I will say that I’d be damn happy if he was on this team next year.
I can’t speak for the group here, but I think that that’s the general line of thinking.
I’m aware he’s won 2 games in 2 years, but that’s not at all on account of him nor his play. He’s 37 and at the end of the line and I get it, but so were Rich Gannon and Brad Johnson and they played each other in a Superbowl once so, …… Just saying.
It does and has happened.
But that’s not really what we’re talking about here anyway. The point here is, QB ain’t the issue dude. We could win with what this dude is putting up if everything else was up to snuff. Or Johnny. But nothin else is, so that we don’t have Drew Brees right now isn’t really all that fucking important at the moment.
Yes, it would be nice. But it’s not a necessity. Now. It will be later, Yes. But not today.
Not right now though.
Understand?
After viewing both the 49er’s game and the seahawks game I still feel it’s better to use the top pick on either Geoff or Lynch Johnny plays better on the edge and still has trouble in the pocket and worst of all still goes down to easy sometimes losing the ball.
So you’d be willing to put a rookie QB back there with a worse offensive line than we have now (because Mack is leaving), the same weapons as we have now (not factoring in Josh Gordon because he’s one gin and tonic away from being Justin Blackmon) on the outside, the same ground game save for probably a mid round pick to compete with Crowell, and a defense that will be intact except one year older and thus even worse?
Can you elaborate on how that’s a good idea or what kind of good can or will come of that?
So you’d be willing to put a rookie QB back there with a worse offensive line than we have now (because Mack is leaving), the same weapons as we have now (not factoring in Josh Gordon because he’s one gin and tonic away from being Justin Blackmon) on the outside, the same ground game save for probably a mid round pick to compete with Crowell, and a defense that will be intact except one year older and thus even worse?
**Can you elaborate on how that’s a good idea or what kind of good can or will come of that?**1 pick does not an offseason make. Free Agency (Browns have LOTS of cap room) and the other picks as well.
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