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I’m bummed that he’s not back with the team…but his whole, “I want to remain with the Browns” shtick rings a little hollow now.
Hi guys! I know I have been MIA for a while….that is on me. Life happens. Oh and I love the “Browns for Life” guys like you and me.
My take on this is that its a complete no brainer. We get a 2nd rd pick, 6th rd pick, and a project/developmental QB for a 4th rd pick. We were never going to spend our cap space on franchise changing players. We’ve seen that before….and it didn’t work.
We have to overpay for free agents right now…Jefferson is an example of how players view us…leverage.
This trade makes a ton of sense. We have money and in return, we got a better in draft picks AND a ‘shot in the dark’ QB to be a back-up. That’s a win.
Oh and thanks for still being here!
William Green:
CAREER STATS
Games played: 46
Games started: 29
Rushing yards: 2,109
Rushing attempts: 568
Average: 3.7
Rushing touchdowns: 9Trent Richardson:
CAREER STATS
Games played: 46
Games started: 37
Rushing yards: 2,032
Rushing attempts:614
Average: 3.3
Rushing touchdowns: 17Gotta be Green, Taylor, Richardson, Mingo, and then Gilbert (Thus far)…all of the others had some success in the NFL.
At least the last two have the ability to distance themselves from Green and contribute to our team, but Green and Richardson stand out to me like sore thumbs.
Sadly, I really wanted Green and Richardson to work out. Green is from my area and Richardson seemed like the real deal.
Taylor = injury derailed career, thus far, but I’d say you need to keep him on the list/
Eh Soup…comparing Mariotta to Manziel isn’t exactly a good comparison. By that I mean, why not compare him to Brady, Manning, Luck, Tannehill, the rapist?
A McCown to Manziel comparison, to me, is very valid. Same system, same coaching, same offensive players. That makes sense to me.
But if you want to compare Manziel and Mariotta, neither looked great in Week #2. Both should flashes of being a competent QB. Both threw 2 TDs. Both had huge negatives: Mariotta: 7 sacks, Manziel: 2 fumbles. Oh wait…Mariotta fumbled 3 times and lost two of them. Aside from yards, stats seem to favor Manziel…but stats can be misleading (and are if used improperly.) But the one that does count is that the Browns beat the Titans….not the other way around.
Week #1 is one I wouldn’t even attempt to compare. Mariotta was prepped all week in practice and then played the Bucs. Manziel got thrown into the game after McCown got hurt and played a much better defense. Penalities killed several opportunities for Manziel in that game.
Not sure how the maturity comes into play unless you are talking about last year…and we all know Manziel had huge issues, but seems to be on a much better path right now.
Of course, I digress…I don’t really see the validity of comparing two rookie QBs with only a handful of starts.
Oh and while I would agree that maybe Manziel isn’t ready to be a starter, there’s no way that his play last week merited a “3rd string QB” comment. That to me is kind of silly.
🙂
Now if only we had a big receiver that could go over the middle or challenge from the other side….Good thing we have
Josh Gordon…good thing Dwayne Bowe is having a resurgent year. Nevermind.Smart move. They finally made an intelligent decision. Kid still doesn’t know what a progression is.
Am I going nuts or did @soup just compliment the staff?
Keep in mind he complimented the staff for starting McCown. You know..Josh McCown. I might contend that signing Josh McCown as our starter wasn’t a smart move to begin with…thus, this decision wasn’t smart..just a continuation of a poor decision.
Unfortunately, I feel we need to really see what we have in Manziel. The only reason I would be ok with leaving that unanswered is if we win….and by win, I mean playoffs. To me, McCown means winning record or else it really was a poor decision to put him in the starting role. 8-8, 7-9, or worse and we should have started Manziel for at least 6 games. There’s still time, but right now, it is clear, we are trying to win…..with McCown.
Ok…I decided my vote based on the same thinking everyone else is using…
Gotta know if we have a QB of the future in Manziel or not. If McCown is a good leader and mentor, then this isn’t a problem. If he thinks he should keep his job, we could have a locker room issue and/or drama.
McCown looked good in moving the offense on our first offensive series of the season. We did NOT see enough of him ON OUR TEAM to decide that he isn’t worthy of starting. Before any of you decide to counter my point, I ask you to consider Kurt Warner and his career path….sure, it isn’t highly likely that a ‘career back-up’ will turn into a playoff winning QB, but it isn’t without precedence. I say that to simply say, I can understand if the coaching staff starts him over Manziel. They see these two every day. We see one day per week and hear the rest from the talking heads that get paid to ‘report’ and have ‘opinions.’
DISCLAIMER: I didn’t get to see much of the game..the final couple minutes…literally the play before the last Benjamin TD to the end of the game.
Negatives:
1. It was against Tennessee. So, sure, we may compete against the bottom dwellers, but I’d feel much better if we got wins against winning teams.2. Where’s Dwayne Bowe? Where’s Hartline?
3. We gave up 257 yards passing, 2 TDs, and no INTs to a rookie QB in his second start.
4. We gave up 166 rushing yards on 30 carries for a 5.5 ypc average.
In other words, which was the bigger anamoly…Mariota week #1 or Benjamin and his 3 TDs this week?
Outstanding performance by Benjamin, but I worry that it wasn’t exactly an explosion on the offensive side of the ball.
Positives:
1. On defense: 7 sacks, 3 fumble recoveries. They closed out the game at the end.2. Travis Benjamin is explosive. Each of his TDs were at least 50 yards.
3. Manziel showed flashes of the player he was in college. Which is encouraging considering the big doubt is that his college game wouldn’t translate to the NFL. NOTE: He’s gotta hold onto the ball..that’s a death sentence for a mobile QB.
4. We won a game we rightfully should have won before the game started.
Overall, its a win and I’ll never complain about a win. I just don’t think it is a forecast of future success.
I’m not even sure he will be the starter. All signs point to tomorrow’s practice as the decider…of course, McCown has to practice to make tomorrow a factor.
Inactives:
QB Austin Davis
DB Justin Gilbert
RB Robert Turbin
LB Nate Orchard
WR Dwayne Bowe
TE E.J. Bibbs
DL Xavier CooperVery rarely do I actually go into the season feeling bummed about our chances…this year is one of them. Perhaps, I’ll be pleasantly surprised…but outlook is currently doubtful.
As far as today’s game goes…
1. We HAVE to be able to run the ball.
2. We HAVE to be able to stop the rush.
3. Our pass defense HAS to be as expected.
4. Our pass offense HAS to be effective.The Jets are sort of a mirror image of the Browns except that they aren’t making ‘drunk dial’ type player transactions.
I believe if the NFL really looked at our ineptitude since 1999, the punishment would be for him to live at the facility.
I liked Winn. Bummer. Don’t really understand the trading of players for very low conditional picks.
Odd move. You need a RB because you only have two on your 53-man roster..so you pick up one that may be out until at least week #4.
Losing confidence in this organization day by day. I’ll gladly change my tune if they prove me otherwise.
Two things that really stand out and cause huge alarms to go off…
Running Back – How can we possibly go into game #1 with just Crowell as our lone healthy back. For a team that is supposed to be ‘run heavy’ this is a recipe for disaster. Nothing can convince me that this bodes well, for at least game #1. You can’t sign anyone that would make me feel any different. Draughn better be the back up..but that still doesn’t give me encouragement.
Almost forgot #2
Wide Receiver – Anytime you list Hawkins and Hartline as your top 2, you are in big trouble. I know that Bowe will contribute, but it smacks you in the face when you look at the depth chart. I blame Gordon for this. A ‘legit’ Gordon would have been a playmaker that defenses had to respect. Against the Jets, we are in trouble. No disrespect to our WRs..they will try hard, but when you factor our RB situation into our WR situation ALONG with our QB situation…you better hope our defense can score 14 points themselves.
EDIT: I came back to my post and re-read it to see if I was being too harsh. I re-looked at the official depth chart. On the offensive side, this might just be the worst looking depth chart we have had since 1999. The O-line looks great but the rest of it looks like a mess. No…I wasn’t too harsh. I think I was being kind. As a matter of fact, the defense may want to consider playing two ways. I hope I am dead wrong…but holy cow.
Really sad that we continue to bomb on our draft picks. Truly the #1 indicator of how an organization is doing in terms of developing the future.
I think it secures Pryor’s spot on the roster. Especially with Lenz cut as well.
UPDATE: Grossi is reporting that Devlin is cut as well.
Not sure I would want an ‘aged’ RB at this point. Our team isn’t the Colts in which we have so much talent around us and an awesome QB to help mask the fact that we have an older RB who has lost a step…which is what I think most of the vet RBs are at this point. Give me young RBs and give them a chance to prove themselves!
We need to know what we have in Manziel. Period.
Either he plays and we find out, or he is injury prone and we’ve found out. Yes, I am lumping the elbow and last year’s injury together….because he is a smaller QB.
IMO, one way or another, the decision on whether or not Manziel is our franchise QB will be decided this year. The front office better be thinking that way and handle the off-season accordingly.
A tad bit unrelated to this…
If an organization makes a bad decision, they have to be flexible enough to be able to move on from it rather than let pride magnify the problem. – Capt ObviousUntil we start successfully draft high round draft picks, we will never have a perennial winner. Free Agency is a stop gap measure and/or “put a team over the top” manuever…not a dynasty builder.
If our 2 picks this year turn out to be successful, it will turn around a trend of 1st year bad picks since Joe Haden (2010).
1999 Tim Couch QB Kentucky
2000 Courtney Brown DE Penn State
2001 Gerard Warren DT Florida
2002 William Green RB Boston College [23]
2003 Jeff Faine C Notre Dame
2004 Kellen Winslow II TE Miami (Florida) [24]
2005 Braylon Edwards WR Michigan
2006 Kamerion Wimbley LB Florida State [25]
2007 Joe Thomas OT Wisconsin [26]
22 Brady Quinn QB Notre Dame [27]
2008 — No Pick — — [27]
2009 Alex Mack C California [28]
2010 Joe Haden CB Florida
2011 Phil Taylor DT Baylor
2012 Trent Richardson RB Alabama
22 Bandon Weeden QB Oklahoma State
2013 Barkevious Mingo OLB Louisiana State
2014 Justin Gilbert CB Oklahoma State
22 Johnny Manziel QB Texas A&M
2015 Danny Shelton DT Washington
19 Cameron Erving C Florida StatePhil Taylor went bye-bye as well. I was actually hoping he would stick around.
Our D-Line better be very good to let Taylor go (with a cap hit).
Once he’s cut, he can compete with Manziel to be our #2. Whatever is going on with him right now, he’s not right. Conversely, both Griffin and Manziel have some similar skill sets which would make the OC’s job easier than having a mobile QB and a strictly pocket passer.
My issue is that every front office we have had since 99 has been trying to solve the QB issue. The problem is that the front office and coaching staff really aren’t around long enough to see their plans to completion.
Until we stabilize the leadership, we will never fix the QB situation.
Agree that this team seems to have talent (and some depth). I also agree that it may be time to go ‘all in’ on getting a franchise QB…but who makes the decision, has to be certain they are getting a franchise QB or else we just put ourselves back at step #1. Players like Haden, Thomas, Dansby, and Whitner are not getting any younger. They’ll be gone by the time we are in a position to win again.
My two cents.
Finally got to watch the game.
I did NOT watch past the first half…beyond the 1st and 2nd stringers at that point.
1. I am NOT worried about our run defense. Shelton looked very good which just adds to, what I believe, was an under-performing line last year. Over-aggressive LBs is the biggest risk and I’d be alright with an overly aggressive front seven. Experience and veteran leadership will help temper aggressiveness. Where I am more worried is our LBs in support of the run defense. If we are banking on Robertson, Mingo, or Orchard in our run defense, we are in trouble. That’s where our d-line can help. Shelton, Taylor, Bryant, and Starks should be able to help mitigate the weakness of our LB in run support.
2. Manziel looked good. He’s not the starter and shouldn’t be, but he looked poised and wasn’t ‘run first.’ He was pass first. Again, he should not be the starter, but he wasn’t the disaster that JFF was. Let’s hope that he stays the course.
3. I am NOT worried about the run offense. We dumped our starting o-line early (Thomas didn’t even play)…I saw RBs falling forward which to me is individual effort. Our running game will really become more effective as the ‘grind of the game’ wears a defense down in the 3rd and 4th quarter.
4. Hartline looked good…which made the QBs look good. I love the idea of a good possession receiver that can help move the sticks. Give a QB time (good O-line), a respectable running game, and a dependable possession received, and I will give you an offense that chews up the clock and keeps teams in the game. Hartline is that possession receiver.
5. Defilppo will be the right fit. We don’t have enough talent on offense to play the game ‘our way’ and expect the other team to try and stop us. Our offense needs to do enough to keep things close. I know that is typically a statement made for defenses, but I think our defense will be good enough to win games as long as our offense doesn’t lose them.
6. Gilbert is perfect….as a back-up. It might seem wrong, but I think his rookie season was a completely throw away. He is firmly the 3rd (and hopefully) the 4th CB. He needs to be groomed more. Haden and Williams is a great 1-2. “The other Williams” is perfect as a 3. As long as we do not need Gilbert at 1 or 2, and I think he will evolve into a top CB for this team. Much like Manziel, it is all about development rather than expectation or hype.
7. For the first time in a long time, we are going to cut some players that other teams will want. I am specifically talking about our D-Line. As stated earlier, it under-performed last year. The best thing you can do for an under-performing position, is add competition. Shelton, Starks, and Cooper do that.
That’s my opinion after watching one-half of the first pre-season game.
I have to wait until NFL network re-broadcast it…in a couple days.
I’ve heard the defense didn’t look great, the RBs were worse. The WRs and QBs were ok and that rookie TE looks pretty good.
But, as we all know, we have to be very careful when we evaluate these pre-season games. Key goals should be: being injury free, watching how well they execute the game plan (getting the plays off on time, being in position, and etc.), and some basic fundamentals like crisp passes, lack of dropped balls, good tackling, and etc.
I know I am speaking to the choir on that, but I am one that tends to get excited watching the team (or players) do well in the pre-season then get sucker punched during the regular season.
I think he makes the roster. We are definitely NOT loaded at either QB or WR. The offense needs playmakers. Pryor’s athleticism and knowledge as a QB can be used by a creative OC to make plays. Kordell Stewart is the obvious comparison.
Bottomline is that we do not have enough spark in our offense…not enough to force a defense into thinking that are passing offense is a threat. Somehow, some way, they have to get the opposing defense to not put 11 in the box (note: acknowledged over exaggeration) to stop the run. Because of this, if he can make plays, he’ll have a roster spot. I’ll take him over Travis Benjamin at this point.
I think the vote is easy…heading in the right direction will make him a better QB…..compared to who and what he was last year.
Might not make him a good QB, but it will make him better.
I don’t know about this…signing the tender is not exactly the same as signing a new contract and locking the player down. I think it simply means, wait until next year….
Which, is what we are kind of dealing with right now with Alex Mack. All it does is essentially give us one year, to prove to one of our players, that we will win AND they will get paid. To me, the problem is that we haven’t proven we will win AND we are not established enough for players to give us a “home town discount.” In other words, players like Mack and Gipson are simply betting that they will play enough in the upcoming season to cash in from a different team next season. The only caveat that I will claim is that there is a chance the Browns are low balling Gipson because they have a disproportionate amount of the salary cap tied into the defensive backfield.
Unless something miraculous happens, I do believe Mack is gone and I do believe Gipson is gone as well. Reference: Cameron.
The only way this works out for us is if <insert Mack or Gipson> underperforms and we are justified in not offering max dollars in re-signing them.
That’s my current opinion.
There was a bet between Scott Maynard (A Bengals fan) and myself (A 49ers fan) when I was 8 years old in the 1982 Super Bowl. I bragged about how good the 49ers were and that they would destory the Bengals. Scotty wouldn’t bite on a straight up bet, so I told him the 49ers would win by a touchdown. Well, the 49ers won by 6 points…a touchdown. I won…except I actually had said 7 points. It was then that I learned that a touchdown was only 6 points.
The winner got to pick the loser’s new favorite football team. The loser had to stop rooting for his current team and ONLY root for the new team until they won a Super Bowl. Because he was my best friend, he took mercy on me and picked the Kardiac Kids for my new team. I didn’t like Brian Sipe but he could have picked a worse team……..and the rest is history.
I voted “Won’t affect the Browns at all.”
Because I just don’t think it will alter Manziel’s NFL path. He’s either going to have it all come together and become a NFL quality player or he’s not. Its internal to him almost like its in his DNA.
If anything, its could be considered to be a little bit weird.
“Former student has teacher move in with him.”
i could see myself in the press
hhmmm well that play certainly sucked not really sure about running a draw play on 4th and 20,but hey i don’t have to pay 20 bucks for a beer i can bring my own in,now back to the game hey another sack and time to punt again well atleast we didnt fumble (why in hell dont we have some cheer leaders to look at ah fuck it cleveland chicks are all toothless meth addicted skanks anyway ,,hhhmmm maybe i could get a blow job after the game,now back to the game whats this a triple reverse from are own 5 and ohh no it results in a safty,wow ever notice how many black folks are at the game I wonder if they have to pay for their tickets ?See…now that’s funny. Sad…but funny.
“dude, YOU’RE BEING A FUCKING DICHOLE”
Congratulations, you are the 1 millionth person to call me a dickhole.
Technically, he called you a DICHOLE…which should be a first.
I think it will be a repeat of last year. Team wants to win and trusts the veteran qb more than Manziel. McCown become ineffective which will then force the staff to again see what Manziel has. Except this time Manziel will be dropped like a rock after the season is over. Project Manziel will be officially over.
I am hoping I am wrong. I wouldn’t mind McCown making us a playoff contender thus relegating Manziel to the bench and/or Manziel looks like a true starting QB. I’m just not sold that we are gearing our offense for either scenario to play out.
He wants “Devin McCourty” money from what I have read.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/devin-mccourty/
I’m not ‘completely’ opposed to the 4 game suspension. Brady didn’t cooperate and therefore, it is reasonable to presume that the text message and etc. could have contained incriminating evidence against him. Its the equivalent of a “no comment” statement. Essentially, I think it will get arbitrated down and I think the league knows that.
I think the 1st rd pick and 1 million dollars is too much. I think that the league had to be more harsh on NE than Atlanta and their crowd noise, but there seems to be a lot of room between what they hit NE with and what Atlanta got hit with. (NOTE: I didn’t think the future 4th was too much.)
Overall, I think the NFL is making a statement that if you are going to continue to get caught trying to circumvent the rules (Spygate, Deflate Gate), we are going to make an example of you. If this is their ultimate motivation, then fine. If they think they were being fair and impartial in their ruling, then they are delusional.
Ice, I would say that his son was just trying to cash in early….you know, due to an unexpected car accident. 😉
It kind of scares me that I really liked this draft. I know I gave it a B in the other thread, but really, if: (1) We don’t get any real “busts” in the early rounds and (2) some of the late round picks pan out (like last year’s seems to have done), this will have been a franchise changing draft.
Seattle has made a living on their ability to find talent late in the draft. Perhaps we can too.
If Manziel and/or Gilbert can start looking like a 1st rd pick, this team will actually look like its heading in the right direction.
(NOTE: We really don’t need hall of famers to come out of these last two drafts to field a winner…we just need competence.)
And finally, Bill, very nice write-up. But then again, we expect nothing less.
I absolutely want Manziel to become the ‘comeback’ story of the season. Much like everyone else, I worry that he will relapse and/or simply not have what it takes to be an NFL starter.
With that being said, I honestly do not have much to complain about with the way the staff is handling the situation. Of course, not getting a top WR is the easiest complaint, but you can win without elite WRs…you just have to have everything else. And that is what I think they are trying to do…Top Defense, Top Running Game, Top Offensive Line…almost there. Franchise QB….that’s the missing link.
I gave them a solid B. An A+ is reserved for a draft when it looks like the greatest of all time for us (Filling obvious needs, getting future first rd picks, AND etc.) ..which this was not.
I liked most of the picks, but I feel they waited too long to address WR and TE. No, they didn’t need to address them in the first, but I expected something in the 2nd. Considering our QB situation, I would have liked a pick that involved the name Petty or Hundley. Seemed like good value at the positions they were selected. Much like we drafted in quantity, I feel that we should have treated the QB position in the same light.
Duke Johnson may have been a great selection, but that then draws concern for me with West and Crowell. Why did they draft Duke Johnson when we had both of them? It seemed to me that the RB situation worked last year.
I liked the DB selections at the end of the draft. Their “potential” would rate them much higher than where they were drafted.
Overall, I think this draft was entirely focused on solving the rush defense. If that was the case, then I can’t wait for the draft that focuses on solving the offense. AND we better see that from this front office. Otherwise, it will seem like we are only drafting based on Pettine’s strong suit (defense.)
Using that same scenario, the current team (us) may think the exact same thing as far as salvaging his career.
I really don’t think he is going anywhere unless we make a move to get Mariotta or Winston.
Based on using a 1st rd pick on him and he hasn’t even played half a season’s worth of games, I wouldn’t trade him. I also wouldn’t pencil him in as our starter either. I’d see how the draft unfolds and/or the rest of free agency plays out.
In other words, much like there isn’t a pressing need to move on Gordon, I’d do the same with Manziel.
I don’t think this would be such a big deal (aka small changes to the helmet) if it weren’t for the publicity it got. Let’s see what happens to the uniforms.
I didn’t really want anything to change, so for the helmet to change to a darker orange and a brown face mask…that’s a win.
At least we can plan on using our 2 1st rd picks this year. Most years, we are talking about packaging picks and trading up.
Keep in mind Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl….we just need the rest of the team to be awesome.
LOL. Soup.
For the record, Manziel was Soup’s pick.
Please feel free to take this out of context, quote it later, etc.
Ummm..that wasn’t the point…neither of you followed the rules of this post. The easy answer is none of the above, now pick from the two options.
Couldn’t seem to get the vote button to work, but I’m with the loophole group. As has always been the case, I’d gripe if another team did it, but admit that it wasn’t against the rules.
IF we are lucky, the disappointment of the d-line situation is an aberration and becomes a strength this season. I suspect we will lose some players there and thus, continue to be disappointed.
I’d say that this year’s first rd strategy for the Browns is completely up in the air. No one really knows how they feel about their QB depth chart nor how they feel about bringing back Hoyer. They will draft another QB, that is almost a given.
If they don’t address the WR position in a big way this offseason, there should be a mutiny amongst the fan base. When I say “in a big way” I don’t mean that we have to make a big splash in free agency, or trade, or draft. I mean that they have to give it some priority. They can’t keep looking for the diamonds in the rough via late rd picks, undrafted free agents, or older/injured players.
Defensive line was surprisingly disappointing this year. At the beginning of the season it was widely considered to be a strength.
What happens to Buster Skrine will probably alter the off-season plan because I’m not sure who the bigger bust could be…Manziel or Gilbert. (Hopefully neither.) Regardless, there’s no way that they will be happy with the idea of Gilbert starting opposite Haden.
The thing to keep in mind is that while going to rehab is a great first step for him, that doesn’t mean he will become a better football player. His attitude won’t miraculously make him Mr. Blue Collar or have the work ethic of say Peyton Manning.
Its a great step for him as a person, but I’d say a small step as a player.
I don’t want to see Gordon in a Browns uniform unless he dramatically changes his tune and seeks real help. The guy is still in denial…which means he hasn’t hit ‘his rock bottom.’ Football isn’t his measuring stick either.
The pragmatist in me agrees with Ice. The idealist wants Gordon to change. The realist thinks he needs to be cut.
As long as he is not able to negatively impact the team, I say hold onto him (ala Ice) because his value is about as low as it goes. Another team is going to take a crack at him once his suspension passes. Why not hold his rights for a while longer.
I think the signing was a ‘sign’ once again that no one wants to come here…at least no one that values their reputation as a coordinator/coach/etc.
Still like Farmer and Pettine, but all signs still point to the same ol’ Browns (since the return)…
Sign some staff, fire some staff, rinse and repeat.
Let’s hope we find a diamond in the rough because we all know how that has been working out for us.
